Rob Alvarez Bucholska
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Why is EVERYONE Failing At Gamification? (WHAT’S REALLY GOING ON?) | Episode 439

 

Master the science of motivation and see how top experts do it right. Get the free 9-day “Core Drives in the Wild” email sequence here: professorgame.com/WildCD

We break down three massive gamification disasters from 3 huge companies to reveal exactly what happens when we ignore behavioral science. We explain how well-intentioned features like leaderboards and point systems can accidentally create toxic work environments or destroy thriving communities. By applying the Octalysis framework, we highlight the dangers of relying too heavily on Black Hat motivation and extrinsic rewards without balancing them correctly. You will learn how to design systems that drive genuine engagement rather than building expensive burnout traps.

Rob Alvarez is Head of Engagement Strategy, Europe at The Octalysis Group (TOG), a leading gamification and behavioral design consultancy. A globally recognized gamification strategist and TEDx speaker, he founded and hosts Professor Game, the #1 gamification podcast, and has interviewed hundreds of global experts. He designs evidence-based engagement systems that drive motivation, loyalty, and results, and teaches LEGO® SERIOUS PLAY® and gamification at top institutions including IE Business School, EFMD, and EBS University across Europe, the Americas, and Asia.

 

Lets’s do stuff together!

Looking forward to reading or hearing from you,

Rob

 

Full episode transcription (AI Generated)

Rob Alvarez (00:00)
What is the difference between a gamified system that creates rabid fans and one that burns down your entire company culture? The answer might surprise you. In fact, the answer reveals why some of the biggest, most well-funded companies in the world failed spectacularly when they tried to gamify their platforms.

Rob Alvarez (00:21)
You notice how engagement is dipping. Therefore you feel that pressure to add some game mechanics to boost the numbers. You might throw in a leaderboard point system as a quick fix. What happens when you add game mechanics to your business without understanding the underlying human psychology? Don’t just get zero results. You can

actively destroy your culture, burn out your users, and ruin your product. I know this because I’ve spent the last eight years interviewing with the world’s top behavioral and gamification experts. And by the way, welcome to Professor Game. This is a show where we explore how games, gamification, and game thinking help us boost engagement. In fact, we’re the number one show in the world for this. And I’m Rob. Through my own consulting at the Opthalysis Group, I’ve also seen firsthand how a

billion budget cannot save a fundamentally flawed behavioral design. And today I’m going to break down exactly why three very well-intentioned ideas turned into expensive disasters. So you don’t make the same mistakes with your product team. We’re going to dissect three massive real world failures. I’m going to hold back on the names of the companies for now. You’ll see if you can perhaps guess them. And then we’ll use the Octalysis Framework to figure out exactly

where the science went wrong for these examples.

Rob Alvarez (01:40)
Let’s start by imagining a workplace that is so stressful that pregnant workers are pushed to tears. Employees are skipping bathroom breaks just to avoid public shaming. That was a result of a single massive flat screen monitor installed in hotel laundries in 2011. This global entertainment titan, which is also known for creating some of the happiest places on earth, installed a giant real time leaderboard tracking exactly how quickly

workers loaded pillowcases and sheets. Green meant fast, yellow meant slowing down, red meant you were failing. Employees dubbed it the electronic whip. They relied 100 % on a mix, toxic mix of Core Drive 2 development and accomplishment, Core Drive 5 social influence and relatedness, and Core Drive 8 loss and avoidance. But they completely, entirely ignored other core drives like Core Drive 1, Epic Meaning, and Core Drive 3 empowerment of creativity.

and feedback. Therefore, it wasn’t a game. It was pure surveillance. Who the company is, might be wondering. Well, none other than Disney. So look at your own performance dashboards. Are they celebrating progress or are they a version of the electronic whip?

Rob Alvarez (02:59)
you’re realizing now that your internal systems might be leaning a bit too close to that electronic whip or other of the strategies that we’re about to discuss, you cannot afford to just guess the solution. To help you navigate this safely, I put together a nine day email sequence called Core Drives in the Wild. Every day I send you a breakdown, every weekday in fact, I’ll send you a breakdown of a real world example from past guests in the podcast and from my consulting experience at the Octalysis group and I’ll be giving you some of the insights.

Head over to the link in the description and get to the first case study sent into your inbox right away. So let’s get back into the disasters. Imagine millions of daily active users plummeting into a catastrophic drop. Massive leading gaming pioneer left scrambling. And why? Because players realized they weren’t having fun anymore. They were working a demanding anxiety inducing second job.

very early in the 2010s, this company built one of the biggest games on Facebook. Their entire engagement model was built on the appointment mechanics. If you didn’t log back in at a very specific time to harvest, you would have them wither and die. This is pure black hat gamification. It relies very heavily on Core Drive scarcity and impatience.

and Core Drive 8 loss and avoidance. Black Hat Motivation creates a massive short-term urgency. However, if you’re thinking of a game in terms of months or even years, you need to transition your users also into some of the White Hat Motivations. Otherwise, they will inevitably eventually burn and churn. The game? That was Farmville by Zynga.

examine your retention mechanics. Are your users running and returning because they want to or because they are terrified of losing something that they have within the game?

Rob Alvarez (04:58)
Now let’s get into this thriving organic community of experts that turned into a punchline filled with spam, trolls, and useless one word answers. It got so bad, so bad that the platform, this new system that was built into it eventually had to shut down entirely. This massive web pioneer had built a Q and A platform where people genuinely enjoyed helping others, but they decided to gamify to boost these metrics. They introduced a point system.

points for asking questions and points for answering questions. They accidentally replaced the intrinsic motivation, Core Drive 5 social influence, with extrinsic motivation, Core Drive 4 ownership and possession. This is known in behavioral economics as the over-justification effect. Throwing extrinsic points at intrinsically motivated people, and especially a community, does not enhance it in any way. It actually might kill its own soul. The platform you’re wondering? Yahoo Answers!

So before adding points to a social system, ask yourself, does this reward the quality of the outcome? Does this reward the interactions or does it just increase the volume of the noise? So notice what Disney, Zynga and Yahoo have in common. They aren’t small companies. They had incredible resources, engineers, a lot of smart people, but they treated psychology like a simple UI feature.

If you are designing a system for your employees or your users, you cannot afford to guess and hope you don’t accidentally build a burnout trap. So

Protect your product, protect your culture, and let’s get the science right. Head over to the link below and get the core drives in the wild email sequence. Understand the science of motivation and don’t let your gamification strategy be the reason to say, that it is time to say that it’s game over.

End of transcription

 

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TOG

Ultra-short (one-liners)

  1. Exploring gamification for your product or org? Let’s chat → professorgame.com/chat

  2. Wondering if Octalysis fits your challenge? Quick intro chat → professorgame.com/chat

  3. Retention or loyalty on your roadmap? Happy to brainstorm → professorgame.com/chat

Short & soft (2 lines max)

  1. Curious whether TOG’s approach could help your team?
    Start with a no-pressure intro chat: professorgame.com/chat

  2. If you’re considering gamification for engagement, retention, or loyalty,
    I’m happy to compare options with you: professorgame.com/chat

  3. Have a community, product, or learning challenge and need a sounding board?
    Book a quick chat: professorgame.com/chat

Corporate / innovation tilt

  1. Heads of Product/Innovation: exploring behavior design for 2025 initiatives?
    Let’s see if TOG is a fit → professorgame.com/chat

  2. Recently funded and aiming for sustainable retention?
    Intro chat (no sales pitch): professorgame.com/chat

Public sector / education tilt

  1. Government or higher-ed initiative needing meaningful participation?
    Let’s explore options: professorgame.com/chat

  2. Designing programs that people return to?
    Happy to share what works: professorgame.com/chat

Credibility-but-calm

  1. I’ve interviewed hundreds of experts and now lead Engagement Strategy (EU) at TOG.
    If you want help applying this, start here: professorgame.com/chat

A/B-testable templates (fill the {…})

  1. If you’re {role/industry} and want {outcome}, let’s see if Octalysis fits → professorgame.com/chat

  2. Have a {product/community/learning} challenge around {engagement/retention/loyalty}? Quick intro chat → professorgame.com/chat

  3. Not sure if gamification is the right lever for your initiative?
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