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Witcher-Level Storytelling for Real Engagement with Jakub Szamalek | Episode 389

 

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Why do players stay hooked for 100+ hours in games like The Witcher 3? It’s not just gameplay—it’s story. Rob Alvarez is joined by Jakub Szamalek, the master narrative designer behind gaming’s most iconic worlds, to unpack the secrets of choice, emotion, and retention through storytelling.

Jakub Szamalek is an award-winning narrative designer and writer, best known for his work on The Witcher III: Wild Hunt and Cyberpunk 2077. Jakub has played a key role in shaping some of the most emotionally immersive and critically acclaimed storylines in modern gaming, blending deep lore, player-driven choices, and unforgettable characters.

Beyond games, Jakub is also a novelist and a passionate storyteller who understands how narrative can hook people—and keep them coming back. Today, we’ll explore what makes interactive stories so powerful, and what we can learn from games like The Witcher to design better, more engaging experiences in other fields.

Rob is a host and consultant at Professor Game as well as an expert, international speaker and advocate for the use of gamification and games-based solutions, especially in education and learning. He’s also a professor and workshop facilitator for the topics of the podcast and LEGO SERIOUS PLAY (LSP) for top higher education institutions that include EFMD, IE Business School and EBS among others in Europe, America and Asia.

 

Guest Links and Info

 

Lets’s do stuff together!

Looking forward to reading or hearing from you,

Rob

 

Full episode transcription (AI Generated)

Jakub Szamalek (00:00.11)
So if you have a whole list of questions about the Witcher 4

I have zero questions about the Witcher 4. So yes, today we are definitely going to have a legend from the Witcher 3, the Wild Hunt team. It has many other big hits as well. I wanted to give you very quickly, let you know that you are here. This is the Professor Game Podcast. This is the place where we interview legends like the one that we’re going to have today and other practitioners to get us inspired into how to use game.

strategies, game design, ideas and playfulness so that we can superpower retention and engagement. I’m Rob Alvarez. I teach at IE Business School, EBS, EFMD and many other places around the world. And if you think you would benefit from three gamification hacks to increase your income from your community, then click on the link below because we have a freebie just

Jakub Szamalek (01:18.456)
Hey, Sean Mawick. Sean Mawick. That was the Braver 10.

So Jakub Szamalek is an award-winning narrative designer and writer, best known for his work on The Witcher 3, The Wild Hunt and Cyberpunk 2077. He has played a key role in shaping some of the most emotionally immersive and critically acclaimed storylines in modern gaming, blending deep lore, player-driven choices and unforgettable characters and beyond playing games. Jakub is also a novelist and a passionate storyteller who understands how narrative can help people and keeps them coming back. Today, we’ll explore what makes narrative stories so powerful.

and what we can learn from games that go beyond the Witcher, course, but including the Witcher to design better, more engaging experiences in other fields. Jakub, welcome. Are you, we need to know still, are you prepared to engage?

Rob (02:07.694)
Let’s do this, let’s go. And we have a different episode also in the sense that we have a bit of a live audience. We’re testing how this work works today with Luke. So there might be questions coming in from those who are present. Now, let’s actually get started with, you know, the first few things that we had in mind. So we’ll be diving, of course, into what how storytelling can inspire powerful engagement. Even, you know, of course, definitely within games, but even outside of games, if there’s anything you can think of.

So of course, being part of The Witcher, being such a popular story, so complete with so many things, I have a question from one of our internal groups, who is Roger. And Roger is asking, how do you decide how much real world myth versus, real world myth and folklore versus original lore to infuse? In a story like, of course, The Witcher is the first thing that comes to mind. Do you have any insights that you can share with us on that?

Jakub Szamalek (03:05.358)
Well, would say, well, maybe I’ll start with saying this. I’m trained as an archaeologist and ancient historian. So I am aware that we’ve been telling stories to one another for quite some time. It’s a very human thing. And there’s a very good collection of stories, legends, beliefs that we can explore.

Seeking for inspiration for a different perspective because we’re products of our own times and cultures. But when you look back, when look beyond, our immediate experiences can come. So really interesting stuff. So whenever I’m working on a project, whatever the project is, I try to branch out and we

things that are related to what I’m planning to write about that could serve as inspiration. And I’d say the point is to become inspired and not to copy because I mean, we can also do the telling of the story and as long as the IP rights expire, you’re good. I’m not thinking when we’ll come up to you if you decide to do any telling of the epic of Gilgamesh. But I’m always very interested in

like identifying some interesting details or finding some elements that would fit in a different story and kind of mixing it up. The Witcher was a little bit different because it was like the source material, anti-Soposti popsy, already established this method whereby you take a well-known story and then there’s a twist at the end. So like that’s something that

And this of course did a lot and did very very well and that’s something that I also did when I worked on Game Set from Time Universe. yeah, there was a lot of brothers tales that I read looking for some letter stories that Kurtz started like when looking for a new quest. Most of them are very disturbing and really badly.

Jakub Szamalek (05:29.602)
That’s helping on that.

There’s so many references as you were saying with small twists in story or huge twists. I mean it’s absolutely amazing. Luke is asking if you did work on the magic system. I’m not sure.

No, no, because I’m a video game writer, so I mostly focus on the narrative. That being said, it’s like video game writers write a lot of different things depending on where we are in the project. Then we mostly start with the big picture. So what is the world? What is the story? Where are the characters? And then the grammar and the words, so it’s almost broad, and then it’s special.

go into defining the main story and then start writing quests. And at the end of the process, we start writing tooltips and item links. So I guess I worked on Game Boy systems to the extent of rewriting the better script. And so, hello.

I know.

Jakub Szamalek (06:44.962)
version of them but no I don’t ruin that one.

Is there, like, diving deeper into what we just were talking about, you know, in immersive games, is there something that you feel or a group of things that you think makes a story stick or maybe make the world feel more alive? When I ask you this, what comes to your mind?

Well, was saying that, a star that’s, you that great. It’s such a rise to emotions. so like you remember great books, you’ll need to remember horrible books and we’ll be thinking of their sound. All classics which are, remembered and, and what’s going to be watched on the account of them being extremely bad. But, I think, as long as it evokes something in you, that’s a good starting point.

And I think particularly in games, the element of choice is zooming parts and it’s really unique because as much as I like to come in best in a given character’s journey when I’m reading a book or watching a movie, I understand where that level is going to pass. I do is I watch the movie, I read the book and the letter

What I do, the story will unfold exactly how its creators intended it to. Whereas in a bigger game, you are in a position where you have agency over how the story unfolds. And it’s cool on a number of different layers, but what I enjoy as a story writer is that it creates this action where you’re wondering, what is the correct thing to do? What should I decide here? And when the choices were crafted,

Jakub Szamalek (08:38.99)
It’s something that you debate with yourself. It’s something that you wonder about. And I forget, that’s just something that’s very deeply fueled. think we all create having choice, having agency in our life. But it can be terrifying. It can be very stressful to have choice. To realize that suddenly

you read across jokes and depending on whether you do left or right, your life can take, why are you different parents, know, whether you like this or that. So whether you quit your job or, or, or edits, whether you kneel down to propose or, or, or, or break up, right? They’re all very meaningful, powerful laws. And, perhaps, like they don’t come back after that, where they left, right?

teens, have our habits. That’s like when I’m watching a story in a video game, I can move both music with a lot of these really powerful, meaningful choices and moments that kind of draw you in, make you feel alive and make you forget that this is just a story. It’s just a moment’s experience.

that somebody created for you. And I think this is what’s to look at. That’s what excites me as a creator. know, I’m working in linear reality. know, I occasionally put out a book and I tap open bullies. And that’s wonderful too. And each of these new out, they have their own like, you know, quirks and interesting rules and, you know, some presences. But I think, know, with the choice that’s at exploding well.

That’s what makes video games so stand out.

Rob (10:37.166)
And talking about choice and specifically meaningful choice, know Luke was very curious as well. He asked this question before we got on. And literally he wrote like, do you structure such a complex narrative and make the decision still feel meaningful? And things like do you map the endings first and then go backwards? the other way? Like, how do even go about these these massive because

If you think about a huge, like if you think about small games and you know, you have a few branches, but the bigger the game gets, it’s not that it, know, twice as big, it’s twice as complex. it’s tens of thousands of times more complicated. How do you structure that?

Yeah, that’s a good question. I would love to provide a clear, crisp answer. We sometimes see these ads or headlines in tabloid press where dentists hate these five things people do. Or, I don’t know, doctors. The scientific mind did this because they’re relevant.

And so I’d like to give you this one thing that would be enough to propel towards making your own bad story. The truth is it’s a super messy process. And of course, like whatever you do and like respect the present time bomb, it has a tragic story. We do our best to map it out and do control and talk about what’s going on. But it always gets messy.

because there’s a lot of variables, there’s a lot of people, you’re all co-creating it, people have different ideas and having everyone on the same page and report equal access circulation is always, always, always a challenge.

Rob (12:31.27)
And you touch upon something interesting there because it’s not just about, it’s not just your choices because you could even argue like, no, I have it all in my head and I just structure it, which is not really often true, but you also involve other people. how do you, complicating that, how does it get when there’s collaboration involved as well?

Yeah.

Jakub Szamalek (12:51.054)
Well, you have to talk to people and have to argue with them. And you have to state your ambitions and defend your goals. I think it really helps if you work on a game that has a lot of good ambition. sadly, a lot of games will sell. For me, personally. There’s a lot of games that just don’t care about the story or the story is just a pretext to send you off on an adventure. And that’s cool. But the games I work on,

They tend to, you know, justify my existence inside the project. tend to, didn’t help start there. So everyone understand this importance to tell the story well. So like you talk and there are emails and there’s documentation, but the documentation has a lasting habit of going out of date the moment you You stop writing. Like the long put the finishing practice is over. I don’t think it’s a general idea of what we’re trying to do. So like you talk.

So, you know, document that helps to like deciding how to do it and how to decide which elements perhaps that we really do carry like equal consequences and which don’t. Because there’s a lot of fluff like whatever, whatever game you’re making, whatever game you’re playing, there’s a good chance that a lot of the choices there are just fluff. So let’s keep that in mind.

have choices that goes A and B and then they equal to the same points. That’s life. Sometimes, you know, when we make decisions outside, it feels like no matter what we do, the cycles don’t go our way. And sometimes little things can have side-matching consequences. think fuels are also attuned to randomness and I think that’s what makes us

same place.

Jakub Szamalek (14:48.846)
both anxious and excited. So this is why people love gambling or why they’re prone to gambling when we’re stats crawling on social media because we are curious like what this next little box will contain. what are you just hoping something interesting or something boring and I think that’s my understanding. There’s a lot of research showing how these random

unforeseeable wound tanks are declared to us and we disengage. So I would say that

When I’m working on a particular quest or storyline, I’m okay with sub-charts that are completely fluffed as long as they’re interesting in the moment as you’re kind of deciding what to do. So if they’re putting you in a situation where you’re like, what should I do? Even if the story doesn’t present you with consequences for the job growth, it’s still valuable in that it engages you and it has you on the edge of missing. Because you’ve a lot of weight, you still have consequences, I mean, what?

Yo

Jakub Szamalek (15:58.358)
And also, heroes are absolutely amazing at unsublimitizing shit all around them. Like, look at a clown and say, it’s a dog. And you give things to your cars and you pop them on the hood. Such a long drive, right? Yeah. It’s very easy for us to see human elements where there are ends. So like when you’re playing a game and there’s a

is it an model and it looks like human and talks like a human. We’re gonna assume it’s a human like on some level like the cost of the year like my god that’s a person and you don’t want to offend them you don’t want to be so people that want to fight them so I can go to like that no

Do you do use any tools to keep track of this or again you were mentioning conversations and emails. there a you said documentation but I’m not sure if that’s a centralized thing use a flow chart like I have no idea where that goes.

Yeah.

Jakub Szamalek (16:57.966)
useful to us, like, honestly, I think this is all secondary to, like, you have to know, like, what is your budget and your timing ability as a team. like, you work on a project and, and, you know, you have to set up a budget and how to up a timeline and that will tell you how much you can afford. Like, so for example, right now we have one concept artist. So you are a C-Pen, draw 20.

you

Jakub Szamalek (17:28.407)
final board. So that’s how I think we have plenty of that feel meaningful enough to mount a final board. then you go from there, we have 18, but maybe we could add two more there. Or maybe you’re like, that’s concept practice. Wait a long time. So I’d say when I’m working on that, say I’m in a quest, right?

that will first kind of into the design. And I want to see a few places where you have these choices, where you have choices that at least feel cool or feel promising as something that might benefit exploration. And then I think about other quests. And I’m like, OK, well, maybe if you did this here, you got there. And then sometimes the story sense can have like,

by reaching consequences of itself, you cut off a particular questline or giving quests as a completely different platform, depending on the choice of the guests. That’s not like this really minor things, like someone will know this something and acknowledge a particular action. And people love it. They go, that’s crazy. For like one line, it’s like, I’m just joking. It’s lovely because it allows me to, well, know, kind of introduce that narrative.

And again, think that elements of the stability never know whether saying you don’t think that the same thing is just a flat choice or will come by to you in your hours, hours later in the game. That’s what’s missing.

When people are designing these branching paths or learning user in learning or user journeys, is there any quick tip that you would have like to reduce because avoid completely is not going to be possible with that overwhelm of it’s so much.

Jakub Szamalek (19:26.414)
Yeah, well I would say you have to be smart about it and understand that you have finite resources. I work on AAA games, they tend to work on MML. We’re working on a game called The Blood of Dawnhoker with Shreddle Wolves, it’s a company I co-founded a few years back. And you know, we’re working on AAA budget and that with the team and everything.

And yes, I have to contend with the fact that I can’t do everything. there are deadlines, there are limits to what’s achievable. And limits will be different for different people. But I think the worst thing you can do is have you and your partner sit down to design a massive, know, online RPG game, and then sit down to make it.

and spent a year making one quest that has 20 non-youtians and different endings and so on. Because chances are you’re never gonna finish that. so I picking your battles and being wise about your choices is one thing. And then I think rather, I mean, fruits are sometimes an issue in something.

Jakub Szamalek (20:51.636)
take me one quest and do anything about the other quest where you can do some sort of a cross reference and it’s a mother of two wives or like an additional beach here and there and and and stand the world without investing too much of resources. And again, you know, I’m sorry that I don’t give you the golden bullets to do this. But if I were to give you one wise piece of advice, I would say

that you use some iteration to your advantage is really important. I’ve never worked on a game where we design something on paper and put it together and it works. What happens is you design something on paper and it sounds amazing, and then you’re playing it and you’re like, no, actually, now that I see it in the game, So giving your so flat to move, design your game, implement first class and play it.

and then think how the game can told, how the best of the game can intercollect with the other games of the game. that, play again, see if that works out, if that can be true. And the more you iterate, the more opportunity you have to flesh this all out. again, to me personally, it comes to your own intuition.

and experience and giving yourself time to experiment.

Absolutely, it makes sense. So I know Luke is curious about AI, but before diving into potential impact of AI, I wanted to ask you a question, for example in The Witcher 3 and I know in other games as well, but people keep coming back not just for the gameplay, which yes, of course I do, but also for the emotional experience. Like you’re in the game and you’re feeling all these things. Are there any design elements that you would think that drive that kind of retention, that kind of, I

Rob (22:57.806)
keep coming back for something like this.

Well, I would say we’re like for sure.

with each and every element of your game is good enough for people to want more. Because if you’re playing a quest and it ends and you’re like, oh my, was so good. I want to play more of it than you will. But if you fill your world with filler content and you know, you’re playing the game with this and there’s something found and you want to play some more and then someone tells you to drink 100 full sides or

20 playing stores or whatever and then you’re bored while playing a game. That’s when you’ll put it away. So I’m very keen on making sure like the games are worked out of this. That everything is handcrafted or at least that everything is way against that standard because you’re playing any and it’s up to

that you will be exposed to quality content that is consciously trying to evoke emotions. like, I think when I’m assessing quest pitches, I’m looking for just that first story that makes me feel something. And if it doesn’t, no. I provided great pretext to go with the tangent role, but if it’s not resonating with me on that emotional level,

Jakub Szamalek (24:35.182)
then it’s not a storm and then we’ll ditch it. Wow, so I think that’s again, that’s for destiny.

That would be the recipient. you see like this could be something applicable outside of games. So in apps, online experiences, communities, is that something that you think would be useful?

Yeah, sure. mean, humans are attuned to stories. Like, we care about stories much more than we do about statistics. Because sometimes I wish we were more like, know, vocals from Star Trek and could just communicate through exospecies. Because sometimes our predilection for storytelling makes us prone to bleeding bullshit. And I say

There’s plenty of evidence to that going around right now, like with all the very specific. But you know, if you want to sell something, want to sell an idea, you want someone to really know what happened next and tell them story. And that’s, and I know you can tell the story on video game, also you can tell the story as part of political campaign or advertising campaign or whatever it is that you’re trying to peddle. If you work it into a story, then Google care in a way they don’t care.

set psychostics or heart chills that come without the mind’s power, which that’s storytelling methods.

Rob (26:03.658)
Absolutely. And it gives plenty of food for thought for many other things. And I mentioned AI before, but I wanted to make sure we got here because, you know, AI sometimes like completely changes the conversation. And Luke is asking about specifically like how can AI change story driven games where, know, NPCs can answer intelligent intelligently become perhaps a part of the world. I get where it gets there and definitely where that can expand even outside of games.

Is this something you’ve experimented with that you’ve even thought about or I don’t know, like what’s your take on it?

something I’m thinking about a lot. I actually started playing with the Loja, the press iterations came out, so like 1.0 and then 2.0, when it was way way clustered and it was already done, very impressive and very upsetting. like, you know, different people could settle for different reasons. I’m not

worried about robots taking over the world. Like they shouldn’t, but I’m stubborn, like, in my mind. I went where I thinking, how are we different? How are we different from algorithms? Because maybe we only are glorified versions of the time to go until. So I had like, know, existential crisis, when I took it with it. But when it comes to like practical adaptations, it’s just…

It’s absolutely possible in a single problem like now. But it’s not what I’m interested in personally. Because sure, you can populate a world with like tadpods. But they will bore you stiff. Or you will have like random, random laws that can already have with tadpods in your browser window. What I’m trying to say is that, sorry, sorry.

Jakub Szamalek (28:06.26)
equally about what you say and about what you don’t say. So stories are like kind of like condensed, boiled down to essential. So a story about the beats, the cartoons, the moments. like, while they’re writing, they’re constantly editing, cutting out what’s not essential and leaving the good stuff. And I don’t think these

At least now, I see one that I sometimes play with. I don’t see it being very good at that. So sure, I could probably make a game right now where have NPCs that can talk for hours, but might just as well go out and talk to people at the mess, and chances are we’ll find some interested people and have a cool conversation. But would that be a great game experience? Probably not.

And so that’s one thing that, you know, that makes me skeptical about it. And then secondly, there’s like a whole list of like ethical concerns because undoubtedly, and I won’t take away a chunk of the markets from like, no.

Real few months in terms of the mood for writing and like I said a lot of games don’t treat sorry as they’re sounding for it, it’s just they’re still a blank space and I’m sort of in doubt what’s going on with And that will probably happen whether I like it or not. Should I encourage that and you know, sorry that I processed my stuff. I don’t necessarily feel the information.

So I’m currently working on an alternative hack which will be as I learned as I developed and tell my stories and craft them myself. After the result of experimentation, am I personally thrilled and excited that we are in a time where we create algorithms that can set plans

Jakub Szamalek (30:32.576)
humans and the creative pursuits which historically is what gave us most joy and purpose? No. But I am also aware that my influence over the course and events here is great.

Each and every one of ours is to a great extent is falls into that. So you’ve talked about the importance of this and I can agree more about the importance of narratives and storytelling in so many places. there, did you, do you have you seen or maybe, you know, from your experience that there are any storytelling techniques that could apply well outside of games, things like education, marketing, loyalty programs, I don’t know. Any other place where you’ve seen these strategies being used?

very well you mentioned politics right not to get into any specifics is there any other place where you’ve seen this being particularly

There are always attempts to gamify things. like to train educational and games. Games that will expose people to certain ideas. I think the moment your goal isn’t to either entertain or to order your soul out and share something.

personal one and some more still to you. Just gonna say and then go. We’ll see how that is. So I. I’m grateful that I can apply my writing. We were in a way that feels real to me. And so the space for Intel stories is one end.

Jakub Szamalek (32:31.158)
rather than of the name of himself as a necessarily like like that.

Interesting. So the whole idea, the whole concept of using these strategies somewhere else outside of the game or actual stories is, is yeah, no, like I, I, I get what you mean. I don’t know if I agree with all of it, but I understand what you’re saying. Like it doesn’t feel authentic.

Yeah, I’m saying, I guess that I am in the privileged position and I get to tell the stories I want to tell. I’m because I find them interesting or they explore something that feels important to me or something that I want to share or something that I’m processing myself. And ideally, even though people who play land games know what I mean.

never meet me and they don’t know my name most of the time. We share something, you know, there’s a connection. Like I’m saying through my art, through my writing, listen, I think this is important. What do you think? But this is where I stand. But

Jakub Szamalek (33:58.554)
But that’s cool too, just thought it’s not something I do.

totally

I know.

Jakub Szamalek (34:15.534)
goes

Jakub Szamalek (34:27.336)
and

is

I don’t

side.

Rob (34:58.691)
a

But

more.

Jakub Szamalek (35:08.578)
that fun and entertaining moment.

I completely get where you come from and that you’re happy that you get to do exactly, you get to be exactly in the place you want to be, is just a great situation to be in, I totally agree. Is there, if you were to say there’s a favorite character that you’ve significantly in writing, say there’s character like that and why would it be?

and great.

Choosing from what I’ve done in the past, I would say, I believe that the protagonist is a child maker, which is why also love the smaller games. There were some that were set up second to the WJ universe and the protagonist is this badass little aged lady who wants her phone back. And I really enjoyed writing her and I’m really happy with how she came together.

Jakub Szamalek (36:22.254)
Also, because I don’t think there’s a lot of characters like her, I thought there’s her own part, know, with things my way and kind of experimenting. But also, like she was a nice contrast to Geralt. This Geralt, who now is this volume-like character, someone travels the world and tries to stay away from its affairs and then will inevitably…

getting drawn into them, but like Zesteps was always, doesn’t concern me, just paying for the monster and I’ll be fine with it. Whereas me was, you know, the ruler, so people would come to me and say, this happened, and you have to do something about it, you have to decide this or that, you’re like, there’s a crisis, and you’re all depending on me. And it felt interesting to explore that space and put the player in a position of just possible, like that.

We put so much power in the apps. So that was fun.

very cool definitely. you have any piece of advice for people who want to be a storyteller? Who are aspiring to be storytellers like you? Do you have any advice for them?

Yeah.

Jakub Szamalek (37:37.838)
Sure, my advice would be read a lot and write a lot. Because I’m a good writer without meaning cards. I think if you want to be a video game writer, then you better play video games. And you want to be a screenwriter, you better watch movies. But that’s all I know. Make sure you spend some time. Hold on.

getting your socket stones to what’s out there was being done. then write and write and write. And write stuff is good. And I know it’s to say that when I open the code and process inspired writer’s novel teams, I get a lot of, a lot of applications. And writing wants and advices, send me a writing sample that’s a lot of…

that hooks me from the first sentence and then just keeps going and great. So I need two pages to set the stage. Chances are I will never get to page two. So learn to write in a way, especially like in today’s landscape, which is so satiating, noisy and busy. And we are all blanking and we have these after images from all the streaming content and games and upgrades and whatnot.

Like you really have to have a strong voice to be heard in this master. So like make sure that whatever you rise, that’s that power. So make me stop and make me forget about like all the other things fighting for my attention and just follow me or start any kind of that and chances are it will do well.

Fantastic advice. Thank you very much, Jakub, for all the advice. Thank you very much for all that advice, all your experience. Is there any place you would like us to follow you? Where can we find out more about you, your work?

Jakub Szamalek (39:49.262)
No, because I hate social media. no, just play my games. And we’ll be fine. So my next game, my next big game is the Blood of the Unlocked. So maybe follow that. And the other game that I recently tabled my fingers, and it’s called Throt. And there will be more out about it soon. So I have that on my radar. Oh, and one of my books coming up in English.

this year in our space. So there we go. Yes.

Interspace. Good stuff. Good places to find you for sure. Jakub, is there anything else that we didn’t ask you that maybe we should have asked you about that is not in the interview?

No, I think that was quite comprehensive. hope you don’t mind sharing my freedom. So we’re done.

Sounds great, Jakub. Thank you once again very much for being here, for taking time. I know we had a few tries before getting to today, but it’s fantastic, phenomenal to have you here. Thank you. I enjoyed thoroughly all the insights. Do you want to add something?

Jakub Szamalek (41:01.388)
Me? No, thank you for listening and yeah, all the best to you.

Absolutely. Jakub, thanks again. However, Engagers and Jakub, as you know, at least for now and for today, it is time to say that it’s game over. Hey, Engagers, and thank you for listening to the Professor Game Podcast. And since you’re interested in this world of creating motivation, engagement, loyalty, using game-inspired solutions, how about you join us on our free online community?

at Professor Game on school. You can find the link right below in the description, but the main thing is to click there, join us. It’s a platform called School is for Free and you will find plenty of resources there. We’ll be up to date with everything that we’re doing, any opportunities that we might have for you. And of course, before you go into your next mission, before you click continue, please remember to subscribe using your favorite podcast app and listen to the next episode of Professor Game. See you there.

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