Jamie Atkinson is Taking Lessons from the Business of Video Games | Episode 346

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Jamie Atkinson is the co-founder of NeedaGuest. They are the #1 fastest-growing Facebook group for podcast matching. They have over 63,000 members, and he’s always excited to chat today to talk about how businesses can grow their traffic through podcasts.

 

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Full episode transcription (AI Generated)

Rob:
Hey, engagers, and welcome back to another episode of the Professor Game podcast. And I have a guest today for you guys, which is going to be very different from what you were expecting, usually because he’s not a gamification designer, a game designer, or anything like that. I’ve been following Jamie and his system for completely different and separate reasons that don’t have so much to do with what he does in game design and so on. So that is what we’re going to be part of what we’re going to be discussing today. But Jamie is also a gamer and a nerd, as he self describes.

Rob:
But Jamie, are you prepared to engage?

Jamie:
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I gotta own that nerd stuff. I think it’s pretty cool to be a nerd nowadays. Like, it used to be not so cool in the nineties. Now, like, it’s actually pretty cool to be a nerd.

Jamie:
Right.

Rob:
We kind of use also the term geek more openly. For some people, that feels more better. I don’t know. I’m fine with any.

Jamie:
Yeah, cool.

Rob:
Like to use geek a little bit more.

Jamie:
Call me whatever you like. That’s all right. Yeah, whatever. Whatever you want to call me, I’ll go with it. I’m just.

Jamie:
When people say, what do you do in beautiful Costa Rica in your afternoons when you’re free? I say, I sit down in front of the tv and I play the PlayStation. So, yeah, not great.

Rob:
I can feel you. I can feel you. So we have Jamie Atkinson with us today. He is the co founder of Need a guest. It is the number one, fastest growing Facebook group for podcast matching.

Rob:
They have over 63,000 members. And I’m excited to chat today to talk about how business can grow their traffic through podcasts. That’s, as I was saying before, that is something that we’re definitely going to be discussing. Also. We’re going to be seeing some things through the lens of Jamie as a gamer, geek, nerd, or whatever we want to use to describe him.

Rob:
But before we go into that, you were talking about Costa Rica, Jamie, what are you doing these days? What would a typical day for you look and feel like?

Jamie:
It’s kind of funny because, you know, we live in this beautiful country that’s hot as hell all the time. You know what I mean? It’s like 100 degrees every day. Humanity’s through the roof. But most days I’ll wake up, I’ll write an email first thing in the morning.

Jamie:
One of the things that is bread and butter in our business is we get on two podcasts a week. And I write an email every day, and that’s pretty much all we do day to day in the business. So I’ll usually write an email first thing in the morning. I go take the dog for a walk in the afternoon, work on a few things in the business throughout the day, and then me and my girlfriend will just relax, watch some tv, maybe catch a sunset. And yeah, we’re both kind of gamers, so we enjoy picking up the game console every now and then.

Rob:
That sounds very, very cool. So, Jamie, I usually ask here about a personal, individual, professional failure of our guests when creating immersive experiences, games, gamification and so on. But in your case, it’s been more of what you have observed and maybe that how that relates to the system that you guys have as a failure in the gaming community. Something that you have pointed out. I’ve read many of your emails.

Rob:
I think there are one or two things I could think of from what you have, I’ve read from you. How would you approach this? What would be a big failure that you’ve seen, and what are some of the lessons that you’ve taken away from that as a gamer?

Jamie:
I think this is a really interesting question, because if you look at the concept of gamification, the goal, and, Rob, you would know a lot better than me, right, Roberto, with this. You know, the game gamification process for me is about engagement. It’s about making sure that people are showing up and continuing to show up. And one of the things that I would say is a really big failure that I learned from that relates to getting people to show up. So, you know, in this idea of gamification and nurture has actually been a little bit of how we send our emails, because I don’t know if you speak to a lot of different business owners a lot, but I think business owners really glorify lead generation and getting new people coming into their world.

Jamie:
It’s like if you could be running all these Facebook ads and growing your email list, you’re seen as the messiah or something.

Rob:
But what’s up the world, right?

Jamie:
But so many people I speak to who they want to run Facebook ads, I say, oh, you want to run Facebook ads to get people onto your email list? And they’re like, yeah. And I’m like, great. How often do you engage with them? How often do you email them?

Jamie:
And so many times they just scratch their head and say, well, once or twice when they join, and then that’s it. And one of the big failures, I think I had early on in the business was related to this idea of nurturing and connecting with people. And honestly, when we were growing the business in 2019, one of the things that we did a lot of was getting people through the door, getting people onto our list and not really emailing them. And now we’ve sort of spun that on its head and we do a lot of daily emailing and connecting with people, but it’s not too dissimilar to when you see really big games launching and then having big flops. Right.

Jamie:
It’s like you promise a lot upfront, but then if you don’t deliver on it on the back end or if you don’t continue to connect and continue to nurture those relationships, it doesn’t really come through. So I think when I look at my own personal failures, I think that is a really big failure. I had in the beginning was just not communicating with the people in my audience enough. You’ll be shocked how many people we work with where the very first thing we do is we say, hey, let’s just send a couple of emails to your audience and let’s see if there’s anybody who’s interested in working with you. And they’ll get 35, 10, 25 calls, tons of customers coming through who have just never heard from them.

Jamie:
One of the big jokes that we have, me and my business partner talk about this all the time, is when me and angel first started working together, she had an email list of 11,000 people. She hadn’t emailed them since 2017, and this was in 2023. So I started sending some emails and everybody started replying and our business exploded right out the gate because people were like, wow, Angel, I haven’t heard from you in so long. Great to hear what you’re doing. Yeah, I would love to book a call.

Jamie:
So I think for me personally, Roberta, that’s probably one of my biggest failures that came through. But, I mean, we can talk about a lot of stuff because I’ve written about this in my emails and I talked to you a bit about it. There’s, you know, big failures of video games like Cyberpunk and how they turned it around. There’s even big flops of big triple A title. So when it comes to gaming, I mean, I can talk about that all day.

Rob:
What about cyberpunk? I kind of liked the intro that you gave to that story on your email. I don’t know if you have any juice you want to discuss here with the engagers as well.

Jamie:
Well, yeah, I think it’s interesting because if anybody’s listening and you’re not familiar. Cyberpunk 2077 was this huge game that was developed over six or seven years, and it was run by the game developer, CD Projekt Red. And if you’re not familiar with them, they’re the people behind the Witcher games. And the Witcher obviously has had a Netflix show, became really, really popular, had some controversy around it recently, but it’s a huge game studio. So everybody was super hyped for the release of Cyberpunk.

Jamie:
And when the game launched, you had these millions of people that had done these pre orders, forked out, $60 upfront. And when the game launched, it was just a joke. Like there was bugs and crashes and cars just flying off in different directions like they weren’t supposed to. And it was a massive, massive flop. Like probably one of the biggest AAA title flops where a game was released that really shouldn’t have been released.

Jamie:
And I never picked it up because of this. You know, when it first came out, I never even bought the game. But what was really interesting about this story wasn’t the flop. It’s how they actually completely turned the project around and they did it through Netflix. And so around about, I think it was 18 months ago now.

Jamie:
There was a Netflix show that came out called Cyberpunk Edge Runners. Roberto, have you seen this? It’s like an anime that was released.

Rob:
I haven’t seen it, to be honest.

Jamie:
Check it out, man. It’s like, I’m a big anime fan as well as a gaming fan. This just won anime of the year last year, and it absolutely dominated. It’s a very, very short series. It’s like eight or nine episodes, 25 to 30 minutes an episode.

Jamie:
So you can get through it in like four or 5 hours. But it’s one of the most gut wrenching stories that I’ve seen in media for a really, really long time. And so when this Netflix show came out, everybody started to get immersed in the world of cyberpunk. And it just so happens that around about the time that this show was being launched, they had spent the last two years patching the game, making it better, and they prepared a relaunch. And I ended up writing an email about this because I thought it was such an interesting strategy.

Jamie:
Because when that Netflix show got released, the game Cyberpunk, everybody who finished the show was like, huh, I’m not done with this story. I want to continue. And so they all went and they bought the game. And pretty much the two weeks after the game was released, they had nearly a million recurring players, concurring players, everybody playing at the same time. And it just created this giant reignition of cyberpunk.

Jamie:
And about a year later, they released an expansion. And the game has been a really big success since then. And it was really interesting to look at, because the way I looked at it was, if you think about it, the tv show was like a lead magnet that you would have in a business, right? It’s like, here you go, try this free Netflix show. It’s shorter, it’s story packed, it’s high entertainment value, but it’s going to leave you wanting more.

Jamie:
And so when I originally wrote this email, I talked about business owners taking a lesson away from this, that the. The biggest part of value that you can get from a tv show is the entertainment factor. But a lead magnet has to be really good in the same way that Netflix show had to be really good. You know, if it was a kind of just an average gaming Netflix show that came out. And there’ve been some of these, right?

Jamie:
There’s a Dragon Age Netflix show, there’s a few others. But two really stand out, world class production tv shows were Arcane League of Legends, also a really, really great one to check out. Roberto, if you’ve not watched it, just really great storytelling, super good story in these shows. But when Arkane came out, they also had this huge spike with League of Legends getting all of these new players coming in. And the same thing happened with cyberpunk as well.

Jamie:
So I think the really big thing that’s important is when you look at what these gaming companies are doing, one, they’re getting a lot of attention, right, because Netflix has so many people out there, but they’re basically putting it out, making sure it’s really high quality. And it’s really, those shows are selling you on the universe, right? They get you to fall in love with the characters, the universe that you’re in, you know, the cyberpunk universe or the arcane universe, and it leaves you wanting more at the end so that you go and buy the product and you buy the game. And I think this is something that, as business owners, we can do a lot more of, is actually create these really amazing products that you basically give away. I mean, a really good example of this, Roberto, is our Facebook groups.

Jamie:
We have two huge Facebook groups, 63,000 people between them. It’s completely free. And there’s only two types of posts we do in the group. You either come in because you want a guest, or you come in because you want to be a guest. And that’s the only two types of posts that we allow.

Jamie:
And this free group, people go in and they use it and they get booked on podcasts. And for us, it’s the same thing as the Netflix show. It’s this free thing we give away that’s really high quality that solves people’s problems. But so many people who go into that group, they go and they experience it, but they’re left wanting more. And those people then come to work with us inside of our business and they, once they join the group, they start getting our emails, and it’s a slippery slope from there until they end up becoming a customer.

Rob:
Totally, totally. So actually, how about we speak about one of those successes? And that’s another story that we pre discussed on the chat before we started. If a game that actually did things well, and perhaps what are some of the lessons you took away from that and how well it worked, not only like cyberpunk was, it was from a huge failure that they had. They came back with a big success.

Rob:
There was another one that you were mentioning as well, that it was actually a big success.

Jamie:
There was a game that just got released not even that long ago, and it’s an early access game. It’s called Mana Lords. Have you heard of this one? This is all over the Internet right now for nerds like me that like the city builder games. You know, like a city builder, like kind of like somewhere between sims and these other games.

Jamie:
And so basically this game called Mana Lords got released. And it’s an early access game. And it’s, I think it’s the biggest game of the year. And what’s crazy about this game is that it’s run by one guy. There’s one developer that made this game across seven years.

Jamie:
And something that we’re seeing in the game industry as well is that there’s this massive shift that’s coming up. You’ve got games like Pal World. Did you see pal World come out? That was a huge game that was like a Pokemon knockoff and got millions and millions of people playing because this small indie developer had made a better quality game than game freak. And Nintendo have put out for years for Pokemon games.

Jamie:
They’ve had the same game since 1992, right? With Pokemon, it’s like the same thing. So we’re seeing these indie developers come in and basically say, well, yeah, you are the AAA big budget development team, but you suck. You’re not creative, you’re not making anything interesting. And so these indie developers are coming along and making really interesting products, different games that add more and really give people what they want.

Jamie:
And people are flocking to them, right? It’s a little bit like when people were watching mainstream tv and then suddenly everybody started going and watching YouTube channels and listening to podcasts. Suddenly they had someone that was catering to their every need and people went to them in droves and they became incredibly popular. And so Mana Lords is a great example of this because again, it was made by one guy and it’s a super fun game. And I put hours into this game, just building up my little cities and stuff.

Jamie:
But he’s sold like 3 million copies of this game at $30 a pop. That’s like insane amounts of money that this guy has made from it and continuing to develop it. When I originally, when I talked about man of Lords to my list, my whole thesis was, this is one guy that built a great game and then everybody came. This happens sometimes in the gaming world. It often doesn’t happen in the business world, right?

Jamie:
Like if you sit down and you say, I’m going to spend eight years making the best product I can, but you don’t do any marketing and you don’t tell anyone about it. But it’s kind of like that Field of Dreams movie, right? If I build it, they’ll come. But it’s a bit of a fallacy because, you know, and you have to.

Rob:
Test it and see if people are excited about after playing, you have to test all these things and see how it’s working, not just debug it, which is important, but that’s just a small step in making sure the game is exciting for people. Right?

Jamie:
Yeah. I mean, another example is Hades. And I’m sure if you play Hades, but like, the gameplay loop on Hades was amazing. Small indie team, again, not a huge big developer. And people went nuts for this game because it was really good and it had a really satisfying gameplay loop where you go through.

Jamie:
That’s a roguelike game. So it’s one of those where you go through some dungeons and then you get killed and you start all over again and all dungeons are randomly generated once more. But we’re really starting to see, at least in the gaming side of things, these amazing games come through. These big companies just haven’t been catering to, and people are flocking to them and they’re becoming wildly successful. It’s quite nice, actually, really, to have these small developers have such big success and really to show the big people out there, these big game studios, that it’s not really acceptable to make crappy games anymore.

Jamie:
You know, like the fallout games. Right. Bethesda. They made fallout, what was it, 76 or something?

Rob:
Yeah, I think that was the one that loved.

Jamie:
Oh, man, it’s terrible. Never even played it. And then they just released the fallout tv show, and that’s had a big resurgence in popularity. So I think there’s this really interesting dynamic between media and attention, especially with these tv shows and the game companies. And I think for businesses, the takeaway there is at the end of the day, these game companies, what they’re doing is they’re leveraging these shows to get a lot of attention.

Jamie:
And as a business owner, you just have to ask, well, how can I do something similar? And that’s where we’ve had a lot of success in the podcast industry because, you know, I wouldn’t say it’s super easy. Even a show like this has a huge audience, people listening every single week. They, you know, if you’re the kind of person that listens to this show religiously, you’ll know you listen to the show religiously. And so being able to step in front of an existing audience with so much trust and so much brand reputation, to be able to get attention, I think is really undervalued.

Jamie:
I think people know that it’s about, it’s powerful, but a lot of people don’t use it to, you know, its full ability. So I think there’s some good lessons to be taken away from how these game companies are putting this stuff out.

Rob:
You know, amazing. Amazing. So from all these experiences combined definitely with what you’re actually doing with neat, a guest and media firestorm and so on, would there be any. If you’re thinking of people who are again creating gamification and creating gamified experiences, game based learning, whatnot, would there be some sort of best practice? You would say, well, do this and you’ll have a much better result, or much better marketing, perhaps.

Rob:
In your case, I don’t know any best practice. Not a silver bullet necessarily, but something that would help them get their stuff out there, perhaps.

Jamie:
Yeah, I like the Alex Mosey calls them golden bbs instead of silver bullets. He’s like, it’s a hundred golden bb’s, not one silver bullet. I love that saying. And so we have actually used gamification in some of the aspects of how we’ve built our communities and things like that. So we use a platform called school.

Jamie:
And one of the really nice things about school is that they have some really nice engagement based gamification built in. So when people comment in the community, they’ll get certain points, and you can create unlocks at certain point levels. So if you get 20 likes on one of your comments or one of your posts, you’ll get to level three. And then I can set at level three a certain unlock. So some of the things that we did when we started one of our new communities was we unlocked certain prizes when people got to certain levels.

Jamie:
And so we did things like giveaways, right? You could be eligible for giveaways at a certain level. We gave away courses, we gave away access to our in person events, extra one on one calls. So we did a little bit of that, which works great for engaging a community. But one of the other things that we really focus on when it comes to gamification in our business is looking at when you look at your business, when you look at your delivery and how you deliver your product, what we really try and look at at the most is what do we want our customers to do?

Jamie:
And this might be the same for a lot of other people that have businesses, but we’ve noticed that when certain customers do certain things, they stay longer, they spend more money, they refer more clients. And so what we did as a company is we took a look at our customer experience and we said, what are the activation points that we want our customers to do? Aka, if I can get every customer to do this, how much better will my business perform? And in our business, when we sell a client and they come into our podcast booking program, there’s two really big activation points. When people get booked on their first ten podcasts, they are, I think it’s something like 60% more likely to get on 50 podcasts in six months than if they hadn’t booked their first ten.

Jamie:
So for us, getting them to their first ten bookings is a really critical point. And then the second thing we noticed is if we can get clients to send seven emails, so an email every day for seven days, then they are infinitely more likely to then continue sending emails on a regular basis. If we can’t get them to send those first seven emails, they tend to drop off. They tend to not do them at all. So what we did is once we identified that those were the engagement points, those were the things that made a lot of sense, we then said, how can we incentivize that?

Jamie:
So when we have a client come through now, what we do is we give them a reward if they do that action. So we say, hey, if you go get booked on your first ten podcasts, we’ll give you a free one on one call with Jamie and Angel. If you send an email every day for seven days, and here’s the templates to do, we will give you access to this exclusive content. And what we focus on for the prizes tends to be things like exclusive access, exclusive content. So it might be for access, a one on one call, an extra group call, an in person event.

Jamie:
Or if it’s exclusive content, maybe it’s a private podcast series, or it’s a few extra videos that regular people don’t get. So those are some of the ways that we’ve used gamification inside of the business. I don’t know if this classifies as gamification, Roberto, but another thing that we’ve also done is leverage audio. And so we have a private podcast series that we send a lot of people through. And the reason we did this was that when you send someone a video, I think the average consumption rate is two or 3%.

Jamie:
If you get 1000 people to watch a video, on average, they’ll get through 2% of the video. I think it’s something like that, but with audio, it’s really high. So we have a three episode mini series that has a couple of 20 minutes episodes in it. And the average consumption rate is like 70%, meaning 70% of the people that download it listen to all three of those episodes, which is pretty crazy, like pretty much all the way through.

Rob:
That’s pretty strong.

Jamie:
Yeah. So one of the things that we started to do was leverage audio in places, because audio is passive rather than active. Right. You can put your headphones in, go for a walk with your dog, be doing the washing up, be at the gym, and you can still be consuming the content. Whereas if you’re watching a video, you have to be present.

Jamie:
Right. You can’t really be doing other stuff at the same time. So when it comes to lead generation, when it comes to delivery, when it comes to all of these different areas of our business, we’re now asking the question of how can we utilize audio better? So when we have someone join our list for the first time, we’ll send them through a mini series to nurture them and to get them to get better results. When someone joins our program and they become a customer, we’ll send them an onboarding process that’s in audio, not in videos, so they can listen to them as they’re getting prepped.

Jamie:
So again, I don’t know if, I don’t think that really classifies as gamification, but we’ve noticed that this idea of passive audio is a really powerful way to just get higher consumption, which is kind of what gamification is about. So, hey, maybe it does fall under it.

Rob:
Amazing. Amazing. And Jamie, now you’ve heard a bit of, you know, how the podcast goes. What are the questions? What are we interested in?

Rob:
So is there perhaps a featured guest you could recommend to somebody you would be perhaps curious to listen to, answering all these questions?

Jamie:
Yeah. Somebody who I really love, who always has interesting takes on things, is a guy called Ian Stanley. He’s primarily a copywriter, but he’s always super fascinating at doing the 80 20. What’s the small tweak I can make that gives me the biggest result? So I think he would have some really interesting ideas about different ways that they could play off it.

Jamie:
Yeah, he would be a great guest.

Rob:
Sounds like a fantastic one for sure. And how about a book? Is there a book that you recommend this audience, the engagers, to, you know, get inspired in whatever direction you want to take us?

Jamie:
Yeah, this is a bit of a weird recommendation. My friend Travis recommended me this book. He, by the way, is a middle aged dad. And the book he recommended is by a lady called Amanda Francis, and it’s called Rich as. And she is a quote unquote, valley girl from California.

Jamie:
So she’s on, she’s in the audiobook. She’s like, guys, I cannot wait to walk you through my money making methods to make you rich as. Right. She’s like proper girly girl. But it is a fantastic book content wise for just manifestation, helping you remove some of these money blocks that we have in our life that we’re not always aware of.

Jamie:
And one of the things I’ve learned over time is that, especially if you have system minded people, which I imagine you have a lot of these. Roberto, in the gamification side of things, when we’re systems minded, a lot of the time, we think very logically and not very spiritually. And money is energetic. And when you start to understand more about the energy of money and how it flows and moves, we can see where we’re really limiting ourselves. So this was a great book about how to let go and how to understand more about the energy of money to make sure that you’re attracting more into your life.

Jamie:
So, yeah, bit of a weird recommendation because she’s definitely not like my avatar of person, but great, great book.

Rob:
Interesting, interesting one, for sure. And in this world of media and all the stuff that you guys do, what would you say is your superpower, that thing that you do, at least better than most?

Jamie:
Yeah. I think, honestly, the superpower that angel has, my business partner, and this is what really is a big superpower of our company, is just attracting great people and attracting great podcasters. So what makes our process@needaguest.com super easy for clients is that instead of us going out and cold pitching a bunch of podcasters, and, Roberto, I’m sure you’ve got a million of these in your inbox, right? Like some random doctor sending you a message saying how he loves to talk about the wonders of his PhD without ever reading that you’re a gamification show. Right?

Jamie:
That’s how most people get booked on podcasts, and it’s horrendous, and it doesn’t work, and it just pisses podcasters off. So instead of actually going out and sending a bunch of outbound messages, what we’ve done with need a guest is to be the attractor. So we have all of these podcast hosts coming to us because they want to find really high quality guests, and they’re actively looking for them. So when we’re able to match people together, not only is it usually a better fit and a better experience, but it’s just way less effort. Our clients, for example, they have a 65% booking success rate.

Jamie:
So every three shows they apply to two get accepted. But when you send a bunch of cold pitches, it’s more like one in 100. So, yeah, that, I would say, is our biggest superpower. And I think for me, my personal, really big superpower is just really good copywriting. I’m addicted to writing emails.

Jamie:
I love it. And I think that’s my personal superpower. Just using written words to have a really leveraged low amount of time input way to make sales in your business.

Rob:
Makes sense. Makes sense. Thank you very much for that. And now we get to the actual difficult question of the podcast, especially for you as a gamer. What would you say is your favorite game, Jamie?

Jamie:
Oh, that is a hard one. My favorite games change all the time. My ultimate, if you look at most hours played, the game I’ve put the most hours into is Skyrim. I played, I think, 300 hours of elder scrolls Skyrim when it came out in the 2010s. Granted, I was a lot younger, and I was definitely gaming a lot more than I am nowadays.

Jamie:
So that’s really high up there. But, you know, another really good one for me is Diablo. Like, I played Diablo two, Diablo three, and Diablo four. I put, like 100 hours into that. So, yeah, if it’s not old school game, I would say, yeah, Diablo.

Jamie:
Diablo is up there for me.

Rob:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you very much for that and for all the experience and insights you’ve been providing, Jamie. However, before we take off, before we say it’s game over, now is the time, if you have any final words, if you have any call to actions, where we can find out more about you, where we can find out what you’re doing, now is the time where, you know, the microphone is yours.

Jamie:
Yeah, you know, the thing I would say is, if there’s anybody listening and you have your own business, one of the biggest things that’s a challenge for most of us, especially in business, is getting more traffic, getting more exposure, getting in front of more people. And so rather than me giving you some kind of crazy pitch to come and work with us, all I would say is go and use what we have for free and see if you like it. So you go to needaguest.com, or you can just really go and type need into Google, into the Facebook. But you’ll find our Facebook group there. You can go in, and every single day, we have 30 or 40 new podcasters looking for guests.

Jamie:
I just say, if you want more traffic and you want to get booked on podcasts, kind of like I’m doing here with Roberto, speaking to a completely new audience, not a kind of audience I would have spoken to before, probably not the kind of people that are already on my list or in my world. Podcast guesting can be an amazing way to do that, and I would just encourage you to come try it out for yourself. And then after that, if you want some more help in doing this professionally and making more sales, we can connect and talk about it. So just go type in need a guest, and you can see and check it out for yourself.

Rob:
Amazing. Amazing. Thank you very much for all of that. Hopefully all the free resources that the engagers, some of you will definitely go there, check out what’s going on, what’s interesting, what not. However, Jamie, however, engages, as you know, at least for now, and for today, it is time to say that it’s game over.

Rob:
Engagers, it is fantastic to have you here, and thank you for listening to the Professor Game podcast. And I’d like to ask you a very quick question. How are you listening to this episode of the podcast? If you are using any podcasting app, you know, anything from Spotify, iTunes, Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, I don’t know any app that you could be using out there. There’s plenty of them.

Rob:
And we are on all of those apps. If you are doing that, have you clicked on that follow or that subscribe button. Have you rated us? Have you rated this podcast? If you haven’t gone ahead and do that, please, please do so.

Rob:
This is a great way so that we can reach more engagers like you to achieve this mission of making engagement, retention, and learning amazing using game inspired and gamification solutions. If you want the instructions, we created a quick one on professorgame.com iTunes, and it’s iTunes because that’s the one first one that we created. There’s a couple more in there. And as always, as we’d like to remind you, please, before you go on and do your next thing, please remember to hit that subscribe or that follow button using that favorite podcast app. And of course, listen to the next episode of professor game.

Rob:
See you there.

End of transcription

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