Rob Alvarez Bucholska
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Your Bio as an Origin Story: Gamifying the Job Hunt with Jade Arthur | Episode 424

 

If you’re considering gamification for engagement, retention, or loyalty, I’m happy to compare options with you: professorgame.com/chat

What if your bio was more than a skills list and your job hunt felt like a well-designed game? We explore with our guest Jade Arthur how to gamify the job search for the games industry, creating stories, systems and mindsets that boost confidence, visibility and long-term career engagement.

Jade is a language and mindset coach for job seekers in gaming. She helps job seekers take down the villains in their job search like the “Cover Letter Crusher” and the “Interview Assassin.” Her mission is to give job seekers the knowledge to authentically express their value and vision while finding joy in the process.

Rob Alvarez is Head of Engagement Strategy, Europe at The Octalysis Group (TOG), a leading gamification and behavioral design consultancy. A globally recognized gamification strategist and TEDx speaker, he founded and hosts Professor Game, the #1 gamification podcast, and has interviewed hundreds of global experts. He designs evidence-based engagement systems that drive motivation, loyalty, and results, and teaches LEGO® SERIOUS PLAY® and gamification at top institutions including IE Business School, EFMD, and EBS University across Europe, the Americas, and Asia.

 

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Lets’s do stuff together!

Looking forward to reading or hearing from you,

Rob

 

Full episode transcription (AI Generated)

Jade Arthur (00:00)
Your bio is your representation of everything that you are and want to be. It’s not just a list of skills. It’s your journey, your value, your mission, what you do specifically in your approach. It’s a multifaceted narrative.

Rob (00:17)
Hey,

as you know, this is Professor Game. It is a show where we explore games, gamification and game thinking. How would they help us boost engagement, multiply retention and build stronger communities? And I’m Rob. I’m the founder and coach at Professor Game. I’m also the head of engagement strategy in Europe at the Octalzers Group, the leading gamification consultancy and professor of gamification and game-based solutions at IE Business School, EFMD, EBS and other places around the world. And before we dive into this conversation, I want to make sure that if you’re struggling with retention,

engagement in your business or personally. can turn that around and we’ve got you covered. So you can grab your free resources right now. Just look for the link in the description. And today we have a very special guest. have Jade with us. So Jade, Jade Arthur, is that the right way to say it?

Jade Arthur (01:03)
That’s right, that’s right, like author with an R, Arthur.

Rob (01:08)
So you are very welcome to the show, but we need to know, are you prepared to engage?

Jade Arthur (01:15)
Of course, that’s why I’m here.

Rob (01:18)
And

let’s do this. Let’s go because we have Jade with us today and she is a language and mindset coach for job seekers in gaming. She helps job seekers take down the villains in their job search, like the cover letter crusher and the interview assassin. Your mission is to give job seekers the knowledge to authentically express their value and vision while finding joy in the process. So Jade, is there anything that you want to say about this intro or anything else that we should know before we dive into the other questions?

Jade Arthur (01:48)
Yeah, ultimately the reason that I frame it as villains, because it’s like, ⁓ job search villains, what is that? It’s a way to visualize the challenges in our job search in a way that makes them easier to overcome. So that’s what I’m here to do. I’m here to make the job search process a little bit more joyful, more meaningful, and sort of more motivating. And that’s how we do it through, through gamifying the process.

Rob (02:15)
That sounds amazing and very aligned, by the way, with what we do here at Professor Game. So tell us, what does a regular day with you look like? What are you focusing on these days? If we were to follow you around, what does that feel like?

Jade Arthur (02:31)
Goodness, you’d be following me around my house, mostly sitting on my computer. I’m always trying to make sure that I post great content, update my resources, have opportunities to talk with people. I’ve also been on VodGast, so you’ll probably see me on other places as well. ⁓ But yeah, mean, mostly in here creating content for you guys and trying to make the best value I can.

Rob (02:58)
Amazing, amazing. So in this whole world of, you know, gamifying job search and helping the gaming community and all this, what would you say is one of those fail moments or first attempts in learning, so to speak, where you were trying to do something, it just didn’t work out as we were expecting. And, you know, what happened? How did you get out of that? What were the lessons learned? We want to sort of live that story with you on especially the lessons that we can take away from from that moment.

Jade Arthur (03:27)
So as far as something that I failed at, think the thing is that I don’t really see anything as an out and out failure unless you really hurt somebody or something was absolutely destroyed. So most of time I would say that I don’t really fail in the conventional sense. I just didn’t take the best route. And that’s something that I try to help my job seekers with is looking at it as

You know, you are supposed to make the mistakes. That is something that we don’t internalize, but I like to encourage because ultimately we can’t know the best route immediately until we’ve understood this didn’t work or this could have gone here or I could have said it this way and created a better path for ourselves. So as far as a time where I…

You know, that didn’t work out. would say honestly, my journey into getting into job seeking, you know, help for, for gamers. Originally I taught the ACT and SAT English verbal skills. and, I was looking for other opportunities online. I started teaching ESL and I found that it was very difficult to make money teaching English online. So.

I ended up determining I still want to do this. still want to provide value because I love working remotely. But a lot of people are saying you need to find your niche. And I developed a sort of group of people that were in the gaming industry and my network. And I realized that I could really appeal to gamers because I’m a Pokemon fan. I love gaming and I love the intersection between gaming and education.

There is a lot of value to be had there in the way that we approach education through the lens of how can we make this not just a sense of, you know, let’s just make it a game, but how can we make it an experience that appeals to our inner child and motivates us to continue learning? So I think the failure is in the route I was taking and needing to change.

how I approached it to find better results and to better connect with my audience. And also to better just, you know, express what I had in me, because there was so much more I had in me than just teaching English.

Rob (05:59)
That’s amazing. you know, as we often like to say, you know, failure is not fatal. It’s not final, at least most of the time. ⁓ But, ⁓ you know, sort of focusing on double down, doubling down on that, on that moment. there, like, was there a specific moment when you saw like, you know, this is not the route I, you know, and, know, as what happens with failure, often learning comes from, you know, initially it’s like, ⁓ the pain of it didn’t go as I expected.

But then you open your eyes again and it’s like, well, okay, what can I learn? What did I do wrong? Or how can I do it better? Was there a moment like that that you could describe and sort of dive into that to see where it’s like the perspective that we usually find most useful is when it’s like, yeah, I’m sort of navigating something like that right now, maybe, or I will find something like this in the future. When you feel you’re sort of getting there, it’s like, I remember I heard Jay talking about this.

And before I dive into the deepest moment, maybe I can take a step back or whatever it was for you.

Jade Arthur (07:01)
Well, I would honestly say, know, getting that distance from that is really important. We can’t always figure out or know what is going to be the worst part of it. Sometimes our minds and our thoughts naturally go there. I mean, I suffer with, you know, depression and OCD and I take medication for it. So for some people, it’s not something that you can really prevent or circumvent, but you can get some distance.

to be able to see it’s a separate part of yourself. So ⁓ I think that if you are feeling like you’re going to go there, I’m a language and mindset coach. So in my head, it’s understanding how to put it into words in the best way. And sometimes knowing the language that really expresses that idea more concretely can make it easier in your mind to rationalize. And so you’re no longer

encumbered by that thought. like, you know, and even if you use like chat chippy tea, I use chat chippy tea all the time. And sometimes my way of wording it and their way of wording it helps me recognize, okay, that’s a better way to either look at it, to think about it, to phrase it. And it’s, it’s like a sort of helpful word companion that really

seems to understand how to move beyond just the language itself to how that really can resonate. so, like I said, I think when it comes to failure, I don’t like to think of it as prevention. I just want to think of it as how can we take where we’re going and shift a little bit? And that could be a whole different place that you go.

And so whether that’s writing it down, thinking it out, using ChatGVT to work it out with you, looking at online resources, ⁓ anything that can give you a better sense of how do I go to the place that I want to go to without being afraid of going to a place that I don’t want to.

Rob (09:18)
That makes sense. Thanks for that answer. And Jay, let’s actually focus on the opposite. One time where things did go well, whether again in the first try or the 10th try, it doesn’t matter. We want to be there with you and take away some of those positive lessons in the sense that, you know, what are the keys to that success perhaps and how things went well.

Jade Arthur (09:38)
Yeah. So I, I had a client who has had 16 years in the gaming industry and I worked with her on understanding like her, her mission, her value statement, understanding how to create ⁓ a bio that’s more like your story, your narrative, and also going from writing cover letters to pain letters, which is a type of letter that addresses a problem the company is having and being able to

show how you are able to solve that problem with your unique approach. And just by giving her this sort of help in this way, I could see just how much it was clicking with her and she got so much value from our time together. So I think the success comes from, I recognize that I’m not doing the best things. You’re doing what you need to do, what you feel is right.

But there are also things that you may not be aware of that can improve your odds and being open to that. And that’s really what it is. It’s, I’m ready to do this. I’m ready to look at which areas of what I’m doing are not getting me the results I want. And I’m ready to listen to someone else who could help me there.

Rob (11:00)
Amazing. Amazing. Thanks for sharing that success situation. And Jay, nowadays, you know, after the experience you’ve had, the ups and downs, there might be a way sort of for you to approach problems, whether that is specifically going down on the cover letters or the resumes or whatever you’re, you know, the latest and greatest or broadly like, there’s a problem. How do I gamify it or how do I use game design strategy or thinking to solve this kind of problem? Do you have an approach?

process, something you follow, a framework, don’t know, however you want to call it.

Jade Arthur (11:37)
Yeah. So I’m always the kind of person that feels that the mindset is one of the first things to tackle. And I don’t mean in the sense of being positive. I mean in the sense of really understanding what is creating the perspective that you have at the moment. Not because it’s bad or wrong or you need to think something else, but because we need to understand how it’s affecting what you’re doing, how it’s impacting it and how we can

you know, make that perspective better, better framed for what we’re doing. So I look at it as a, like a five step fear formula kind of thing that I created based on my own experiences with OCD and having obsessive thoughts. So the first thing would be identifying it. And I don’t mean just, you know, I’m afraid I won’t get a job. It’s understanding what about not getting a job.

are you most afraid of? Maybe it’s being homeless. Okay? So what would you do if you were homeless? Why is that a fear for you? Because I’m going to be out in the cold. I’m going to be whatever the case may be. And it’s understanding where that fear really is, why this, what would happen that you recognize. Okay. So the fear is I’m not prepared for this a lot of times. That’s what it ends up coming down to is

I’m not prepared for this situation and I’m afraid that if it happens, I’m not going to be able to do anything to change that situation. So once we’ve identified that, we can then move on to sort of detaching that negativity from it. It’s only when we kind of understand what that fear is beyond just the emotion or

you know, the general idea of what it is that we’re able to actually detach it and not feel so bothered by that concept. You know, if you’re afraid of that, you’re afraid for something that feels out of your control. What is that thing that’s out of your control that you feel you cannot have any, any ability to change? Find that and find the thing you can control. And when you realize there is something you can control, you can then detach that fear.

Then I talk about cycling through it. So this is for, this comes from me having OCD and being stuck in thoughts. If this is something that you are thinking about so much and it is just overwhelming your days and you really can’t function or you just, you don’t know what to do. This is my way of kind of, you’ve detached it and now you cycle through it. You’re, you’re cleansing your mind of that idea. Like, like when you put dirty clothes in the laundry.

You know, the dirt itself is not bad. The fear is not bad. It just doesn’t need to be there anymore. So you put it in the wash, you clean it. And when you are able to do that, it’s easier to move that thought through your mind. Next, I would say, accept it. There are going to be things that ultimately you need to accept. It’s a part of life. And if you don’t understand that this is natural for me to think this way or to feel this way,

then it becomes, I’m wrong, I’m bad. And so it’s accepting and then absorbing so that it becomes a part of your journey and how you think. Because that’s one of the biggest value points of this whole exercise is it’s not just how do I deal with the thought, but it’s how I recognize this is actually, there’s a reason I’m thinking of it in this way, whether it’s because I need to change something I’m doing, prepare for something.

And then you absorb that and recognize, all right, I’ve taken that in. This is a part of me. And this is a part of how I move forward. yeah, so basically identify, detach, ⁓ cycle, accept, and absorb. And the more that you’re able to do that, the easier it is for you to move through these thoughts.

Rob (15:41)
Cool. Very comprehensive framework of thought to reframe the way you see things essentially, which I think is quite useful. If I may ask you, did you gather inspiration from somewhere in particular or this is just your experience and how it worked for you?

Jade Arthur (16:02)
My experience, ⁓ like I said, I’ve had OCD since I was 13. ⁓ And this has been a personal, how do I get through this? again, this has been my experience. So it may not work for everybody. And I think it’s really hard to understand how it works until it becomes something that you’ve really understood on a deep level. ⁓ And it’s also, for me, was easier with medication too. ⁓

This is, like I said, this is my own experience recognizing that I need to, I’m ready to do what needs to be done. And these were the things that helped me. And this is a process. There’s probably always little areas that I could, I, could add or do, or maybe there’s something you need to do here. Maybe there’s another area you could go to, but these were five of the biggest steps that helped.

in this kind of order and that led to this result. And so that’s why I presented that way.

Rob (17:08)
Amazing, amazing. And Jade, in terms of helping people find their jobs in the gaming sector, for example, is there a good practice? Not a silver bullet of any kind or golden bullet even, but is there some, again, some best practice, something that you say, well, you know, do this and maybe you’ll probably have much more success or have better chances at success in your search.

Jade Arthur (17:32)
Yeah, there’s so many things, but the first thing I would say honestly is, obviously we want a profile, a LinkedIn profile that really says, I’m not suspicious, I’m not a scammer. But on top of that, if you already have a profile, you’ve already started having a great bio. It sounds small, but your bio is the kind of, your representation of everything that you are and want to be.

So it’s not just a list of skills. It’s not just the job that you want. It’s not your background. It’s your journey, your value, your mission, what you do specifically in your approach. It’s a multifaceted narrative. And the more that we understand that language plays a role in how you’re perceived, but also how you get the results that you want, the more you understand that the bio

is one of the pivotal things that lets people know who you really are beyond just you’re a person in this field. You are a visionary. So show me why I should partner with you. ⁓ And even if they don’t look at the bio, it’s something that pertains to every part of your job search. It’s something you allude to in your interview answers, what you allude to in your cover letter. It becomes your story so that you have this concrete core

you know, value that you’re able to present to people to say, this is your unique, ⁓ this is who this person is and we need this particular person rather than I’m here to fit a role because I like doing this.

Rob (19:14)
sounds amazing. Thanks for sharing that. And Jay, I know you’ve heard some of the podcasts before and you’ve now heard most of the questions. So when hearing this, is there somebody that comes to your mind and say, I’d really like to hear this or that person discussing these questions as a future guest on Professor Game?

Jade Arthur (19:35)
⁓ that’s a good question. ⁓ So I would say one of the big people that on LinkedIn that has one of the like, hugest communities and people love is Amir Sabat. I’m not sure how pronounce his last name. He ⁓ seems to be just so full of love for this community and creating free resources. So I think that would be an awesome person to have on there. And I also interviewed with

Bruno Frasca and his brewcast. And he’s also been in the gaming industry, used to work at Ubisoft. So to have two podcasts hosts, like interviewing each other, I think would be really cool too.

Rob (20:19)
Sounds like some great ideas for sure. And Jade, talking about recommendations, what about a book? Is there a book you would recommend the Engagers?

Jade Arthur (20:30)
⁓ yeah. mean, for job seeking, ⁓ I don’t have a book for job seeking at the moment. But one book that really helped me ⁓ re-enforcing what I do is called Make It Stick, or Made, let me make sure I have the title of it. I think it’s called Made to Stick. Yeah, Made to Stick by ⁓ Dan and Chip Heath.

And basically what it is is understanding stories, how we tell stories that stick with our audience. And they boil it down to success, an acronym, which is specific, unexpected, concrete, credible, and entertaining, I believe. And I think it’s entertaining. And these create sticky stories, the kind of things that we remember. So when you read that, you’re able to understand, okay, I got to make this visual.

I got to make this something that they don’t expect, something that grabs you, that hooks you. The concrete part really reinforced the villains that I do. They’re a visual representation of those challenges. And if you can visually represent what you do, ⁓ whether it be through a metaphor or something that makes it easier for people to fathom, then they’re going to more likely understand who you are.

than using abstract terms like I’m passionate, I’m a team player, I’m, you know, it’s, these just don’t, ⁓ you know, these just don’t give the full range of what that actually is and how that manifests specifically in you. So I do think this book, while it’s a lot for businesses is great for telling stories and there are a ton of stories in there. So like they’re real that they show you why.

they have an impact because of these particular success, you know, words that show you, okay, this resonated with people because it did this. And that’s the kind of story that you want to present to others.

Rob (22:43)
Amazing, amazing. And in this, in this whole world of gamifying stuff, right? What would you say is your superpower? At least that thing that you do better than most other people. It doesn’t have to be unique. You know, there’s many superheroes that fly or have super strength, right? But what is your, your, what would be your, your thing in there?

Jade Arthur (23:04)
putting things into words. I really do think that ⁓ being an English ⁓ major in college, getting an English degree, teaching English in some capacity for the last five years, ⁓ language to me is really everything now. as I start to recognize the way that things are worded, I start to see why people don’t get the results that they want, whether it be

job searches or whether it be surveys or anything. It’s really about the way that we phrase questions and the way that we phrase those answers beyond just the easy words that come to mind. what, huh, can we lead this language down to so that our take fits better with the context and the narrative we’re presenting? And it’s, that’s where I feel like I really shine is putting.

putting that into words in a way that a lot of people wouldn’t even think about or leading them to language that resonates with them so that they can see, ⁓ this is a better way to phrase it and that fits who I am.

Rob (24:16)
Amazing, amazing. And we get to the difficult question finally, which is what would you say Jade is your favorite game? And maybe, maybe you alluded to that a bit earlier, but let’s see.

Jade Arthur (24:29)
Pokemon, FireRed and LeafGreen is my favorite. ⁓ And I just, loved the Canter region. I watched Pokemon growing up and I never played ⁓ Red and Blue, the original Game Boy games. So when I got to play FireRed and LeafGreen, it was just amazing. It felt like home. ⁓ But you know, I just, love Pokemon. So, I mean, I’m always excited to see what’s coming out and I’ve got LegendZa on my

Christmas list. so that’s next.

Rob (25:03)
sounds like a true fandom to the whole, it’s almost even a genre at this point, talking about Pokemon. It’s not just a game or a few games. you know, it goes well beyond that.

Jade Arthur (25:16)
Absolutely. It’s like a really strong, fun community. I love all the memes and stuff. There’s just so much joy to be had there.

Rob (25:25)
Amazing. Amazing. So Jade, before we let you go, are there any, you know, is there any final piece of advice, any final words you want to say? And of course, let us know where we can find out more about you, the work you do. If anybody wants to know more about your stuff, where can they find you?

Jade Arthur (25:40)
Sure. So yeah, as far as the final piece of advice, again, I would say start with thinking about who do you want to present to the people that are recruiting? What are you already doing? Look at other people’s bios, look at other people’s stories. How can you create a story for yourself that transcends every part of your application? That’s what we want. We want to look at them as connected parts as opposed to, okay, task one, write a resume, task two.

answer this interview question, task three, write this profile. They all have to share the same narrative space. And as far as for me, ⁓ I help people obviously in their job search. So you can visit my website, ⁓ makethegradewithjade.lovable.app, I think it is. It’s a lovable site, which is an AI powered website. And I’m also going to be hosting a cohort, a four week cohort next January.

that really helps people with their job search get at those, those really difficult villains like the cover letter crusher and the bio section bully. ⁓ so that they can really move forward in their job search in a site. Intricate like space for people that are just like, I’m ready. I’m ready to do something different and I need a path forward. And, yeah. And that’s going to be hosted on Maven, which is a website for industry expert courses. And I’d love for you to join me.

And that would be, yeah, that would be great. Thank you so much.

Rob (27:10)
Amazing, amazing. When is that happening? To see if it’s time driven and we can still make it.

Jade Arthur (27:18)
It’s from January, it’s the throughout the month of January, I believe. Let me see what time, what day it starts. Forget the date. It starts.

January 5th, it starts January 5th and goes through February 1st. It’s a four week cohort.

Rob (27:47)
Amazing, so hopefully you’re seeing this before that date and still have a chance to sign up if that is of your interest, Engagers. However, and Engagers, at least, as you know, at least for now and for today, it is time to say that it’s game over. Hey, Engagers, and thank you for listening to the Professor Game.

I’m Gasen, since you’re interested in this world of creating motivation, engagement, loyalty, using game-inspired solutions, how about you join us on our free online community at Professor Game on School? You can find the link right below in description, but the main thing is to click there, join us. It’s a platform called School. It’s for free, and you will find plenty of resources there. We’ll be up to date with everything that we’re doing, any opportunities that we might have for you.

And of course, before you go on to your next mission, before you click continue, please remember to subscribe using your favorite podcast app and listen to the next episode of Professor Game. See you there.

End of transcription