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From Theater to Gamification: Lessons I Learned from My Dad | Episode 428

 

In this heartfelt episode, Rob reflects on the profound impact his father, Mariano Alvarez, had on his life, particularly as a prominent actor in Venezuela. As he commemorates the 25th anniversary of his father’s passing, Rob shares personal anecdotes that highlight the lessons he learned from Mariano, including the importance of believability in storytelling, the value of physical fitness, and the significance of generosity. Through his father’s legacy, Rob connects these lessons to his work in gamification, emphasizing how immersive experiences can evoke empathy and engagement in audiences.

Rob also reminisces about their shared love for superheroes and video games, illustrating how these interests were nurtured by his father. He discusses the influence of Mariano’s career in theater and film, and how it shaped his understanding of performance and audience connection. Ultimately, this episode serves as a tribute to Mariano’s life and the enduring lessons that continue to inspire Rob in both his personal and professional endeavors.

Rob Alvarez is Head of Engagement Strategy, Europe at The Octalysis Group (TOG), a leading gamification and behavioral design consultancy. A globally recognized gamification strategist and TEDx speaker, he founded and hosts Professor Game, the #1 gamification podcast, and has interviewed hundreds of global experts. He designs evidence-based engagement systems that drive motivation, loyalty, and results, and teaches LEGO® SERIOUS PLAY® and gamification at top institutions including IE Business School, EFMD, and EBS University across Europe, the Americas, and Asia.

 

Links and Info

 

A couple of pictures with my dad

 

Lets’s do stuff together!

Looking forward to reading or hearing from you,

Rob

 

Full episode transcription (AI Generated)

Rob Alvarez (00:01)
Hey, welcome back, Engagers. Today I have another personal special episode. I’m not sure what your response will be to these two episodes in a row of me just ranting around here some stuff that might be considered slightly more personal than usual. In this case, I’ll be able to tie it a lot better to some of the work that we do in gamification and some of the inspiration I’ve grabbed from this, but…

Today I want to talk about my dad. This is not something I often do. ⁓ He passed away 25 years ago today. Well, the day that we’re launching this episode on. And ⁓ yeah, he was, you know, fairly famous back home. was a top tier actor. He was in soap operas, theater, movies, you name it. Back home, of course, no Hollywood. ⁓

or that stuff back in the day, you know, it was not very accessible for most actors. was very pleased to see some Venezuelan actors more recently, you know, thriving in Hollywood and whatnot. And it was 10 years ago that I realized I spent half my life without my dad already. So it’s had a huge impact on me. He passed away when I was 15 years old. You can make the math if you want. Yeah, I’m 40.

There’s been a lot of lessons and stuff that I’ve gotten and I’ll get into that in a minute, but I wanted to invest a little bit of time just paying a quick tribute to his, to some of the heritage that he left overall. And of course, particularly to me, which are some of the lessons I can take away and some of the stuff that impacts my current work nowadays. Just a quick reminder, you know, here you see Captain America, my love for superheroes and especially the Marvel and DC universe.

came from him like I saw we saw together some of the Batman movies. He loved Spider-Man. It was his favorite Marvel character and probably his favorite superhero overall.

There’s there there’s so much I could get into. of course, your interest is going to be probably more and what are the lessons and that kind of stuff. So before getting into into all that, ⁓ his name was Mariano Alvarez. He was in he was an actor in Venezuela. He he did, you know, some of it was again, he was fairly fairly well known back home. If anybody from Venezuela is hearing and you’re not too young, so you’re at least older than I am. You probably remember.

some of his work and he did recently there was this ⁓ Venezuelan doctor who became a saint. ⁓ He represented that character and one of the most well-known representations of that it was Jose Gregorio Hernandez. he made us Jose Gregorio Hernandez. was interesting how getting into that character and you can see that in movies and other things but because he did that character and he did other epic characters like Simon Bolivar actually twice

And each person for each of these, there were people who brought, they just met him and saw him. It’s like, ⁓ give, you know, bless my kid. ⁓ because he represented a saint in a movie, ⁓ setting. that’s something interesting how we, our brains associate an actor that represented something. Apparently, you know, people were very, very pleased with that. I’m very pleased. Of course he was my dad.

But other people were pleased and very happy about how he did that to the point where the belief in that world that was created within that movie, which is a non-interactive media, it was so powerful for some people that when they saw him in the real world and in a more interactive way, even though they knew he was not the saint, was born and died well before.

⁓ our time, they knew he wasn’t him, but still it’s like, wow, this person maybe has some of the, you know, religious magical powers and, know, from, you know, difficult moments and people like, you know, my son is sick and, can you bless him just so he gets better? Right. That, that level of hope from, from that was born out of even a non-interactive media like TV and movies. So that was very interesting. That when he did Simon Bolivar was the

liberator of a significant part of South America. Again, it’s like people after that they saw it’s like, wow, it’s this guy who with Simon Bolivar, but not not really. that entering that realm of belief is something that I think it would be one of the first lessons I got from him. When creating immersive yet not interactive media like like movies and TV.

when representations are credible or believable, and that has to do, of course, with a script or the setting, many things, but also with the actors put themselves in there in that case. How that can become so believable that people extrapolate and turn that, you know, there’s some video games nowadays that have a very, like basically they try to imitate the literal looks of the actor.

And the looks and it’s the voice of the actor or the actress. So then you can see them on the street and it’s all like the video game character I played. It’s this guy or this gal. So creating that believability when you then see them in real life, even though your sort of logical brain is saying like, well, that’s not that person, then there’s your emotional side to it that’s behind it as well. That’s creating all of this. And that believability is not only important, but it’s also

It’s also useful, right? Especially in this media, because if you create that empathy, that believability, that world, you’re able to achieve some of those objectives that you’re trying to learn. that’s one of the key lessons, one of the things that I inherited in a way from him. I mentioned before superheroes and that whole magical, fantastical world that…

has things that even though again we rationally know are not real, Spider-Man, there’s no such thing Spider-Man, a guy who’s climbing walls and all that, yet it relates enough to you and you can create that space like when we do good gamification where you create it to be close enough to be somehow believable even though it’s not true, it’s like, it’s believable.

And it relates to real situations in a way that now I can believe it and I can take sort of action upon that. And I can use it for whatever purpose. know, I want to be a better teacher and I’m immersed in this world where there’s somebody that there’s this mentor in this fantastic world and they’re using all these tools. So now I can, I see how then I can extrapolate and extract this to my daily life. That believability.

of modern superheroes, many of them, is something that I learned and I experienced thanks, at least at the beginning. I still have some of his comic books. I still have these very old, I think I have like ⁓ episode, the first one of one of the series of, or the first of the series of Fantastic Four, I think is the one, I can check it and then maybe post a picture or something. That whole world immersiveness.

You know, from being super unreachable to nowadays more being like, there are more like normal people who have happened to have superpowers or, you Iron Man has all this money and then he creates a suit. But other than that, he’s a very real human being. And he also introduced me. Um, I hadn’t thought of it that way in a lot of very long, but he was actually a gamer. Like he was a real video gamer. Um, I remember him playing this game, Digger.

you’ve heard it, it’s like a little machine sort of digging around and looking for the coins. And when you eat all the coins in the level, you pass to the next level and get starts getting more and more difficult. There’s these beasts that through the tunnels that you’ve dug, it’s trying to eat you. That that was a game he was completely almost addicted to. played it and he already had strategies for the first, know, like 10 levels. And then he was trying to figure out the next one. But it’s one of these games where when you when you die, you start all over from the start.

Then he had to, you know, pass over again those 10 levels he already knew and then try something new on this new level and so on. And so he was, he had to sort of grind through those levels to get to the one he was trying to. that he, was, you know, there were many elements in that game. Then we played Prince of Persia together as well. And then I remember other video games, like when I, when I, when I was a kid is more, ⁓ I had consoles since I was very, very young and I played some games with him in the console and then the computer, right.

games. I realized not too many people in my generation where I lived were sort of into video games at that point. It came from my dad quite directly in that sense. was my grandparents also gave me one of the consoles, I think, my mom and my dad, know, so that influence. the one the one who was actually playing, you know, my mom never played. My grandparents definitely never played. And but my dad did play. He sat down. He played himself. So that was a big

a big influence in that sense of the gamer and the gamification now person that I becomes a huge influence from that. I had, until I was reflecting about creating this episode, I had never really thought about it that way. had, like I always knew, of course it’s not like I didn’t know he played video games, but I had never sort of associated to like, yeah, actually he was the first person, first adult I saw playing video games, which again, at the time,

was not exactly something common. was like, this is a kid’s thing, right? But he was very much into video games. And he played chess a lot. He also played chess. He started teaching me chess. For some reason, I stopped playing chess. I’m not sure exactly how and why, even when that happened. He liked to play chess, even the first computer chess games. He also did a lot of that.

Another thing that I appreciate and especially lately I’ve been doing more of, was the importance he placed on physical activity and remaining and making sure you’re active enough to be physically fit. Not that fit like, ⁓ yeah, I’m busted or whatever, but just being overall healthy and looking okay, looking good.

I one thing that I remember very, very strongly for that, from that my dad passed away. was was getting too close to his fifties. But many, many years before that, I remember being, you know, actors, especially when there’s even even when it’s not live performance, they usually have like this room or place where they change. I’m not sure how to say that in English. I know in Spanish it’s called Camerino.

Oftentimes they also share it with another actor, right? Because there’s, you know, there’s only so many and there’s all these people. now they share it. remember, of course, I’m not going to say who it was. It’s not going to be a very flattering comment for this person. I remember literally the person and the name. So, but I’m just not going to say it because that’s not very flattering is that I remember there was a moment when literally they were both changing. So both my dad and this, this, this other guy took their off their shirts and it was very

Like for me, I saw this other guy and I thought, oh, well, this guy’s probably like, I don’t know, like 10 years older than my dad or more. Right. He looked, you know, it was not just that he was not, you know, sort of thin, but then, know, his, his physical, way you saw it was like, you know, all everything was sort of going down. Um, and they weren’t in their 40. My dad was in his forties, right? So wow, this guy’s probably, you know, well into his fifties, maybe even sixties. Um, because that’s the way like.

my, my frame of mind of seeing people, you know, I saw that and associated with people who were around that age who, you know, I usually went to the Venezuela, we go a lot to the beach and you see people, you know, shirts off and so on. So I had sort of a frame of mind of kind of an idea of where people were. And then I asked my dad, of course, not thank goodness I did in front of this other guy. It’s like, Oh, but he’s, he’s like a lot older than you. Right. And he said, well, no, actually he’s younger. And it sort of hit me very strong, very deeply, very strongly, like, well,

It’s not just how you look, right? Because that’s just a representation of, you know, your physical state at that point. But how you look is also a representation of what you do to take care of yourself. Like clearly this other person was not taking care of themselves as much. Like one of the things my dad always said, since he’s an actor and his main tool is one of his most important tools is his physical body, how he looks. So he wanted to make sure he took care of it. So he’d go to the gym. used to run a lot, which is something I enjoyed doing, but then his knee. ⁓

He had a problem with his knee and he couldn’t run anymore. So he was walking every morning. Very, very fast. remember, you know, struggling to keep up with him. I was very young. was like 10. Of course you’re, you’re, you’re assume you have a lot of energy being kids, following people around. I remember once the first time I tried, I literally like, I wasn’t feeling very well after that. You know, my cousin and my aunt were around, so I stuck around with them, but I thought I could keep up with my dad. course, you know, young, strong boy, you know, I can keep up. There’s no way.

So he kept up with his physical activity to make sure, you know, because of his profession that his physique looked, you know, that he was in top shape. You know, don’t get me wrong. He was not like, you know, like a gym bro or anything like that. just went to the gym regularly to make sure he had, he put in that level of physical activity that kept him in an okay, in a normal level, you know, at least a little bit above what would be expected for his age or whatever. So that hit me very strong. And it’s something I’ve finally come back to ⁓ heavier.

lately, like I’ve been working out and all that. Again, not like super competitive or anything at all. It’s just, you know, to keep me strong, had some back problems. Now I’m feeling a lot better because of this physical activity. So that’s definitely something that’s there. And then things like overall generosity. Like I remember him always talking about being generous no matter what. That’s something that’s stuck with me a lot, like overall generosity and

Will and being willing to help others and just do it because it’s a good thing, essentially, not because you’re expecting something back or anything like that. Just responding kindly to others and things like saying hi to the service person who nobody probably even notices, you know, sweeping the floors and so on. That’s something that both him and my mom are very sort of adamant on. Have always been my wife is very much like that as well. And definitely I that’s something I.

I appreciate a lot of people when you see that no matter your position, your status or whatever, it doesn’t mean that you’re any better as a human being than others. So when you see somebody of that, again, that status higher or lower, you can still say hi just as if he is your colleague or your boss. It’s like, yo, good morning, just responding kindly to other people.

And a final thing that I learned and I think it still influences my sort of way of thought is he was not just an actor. He also started directing a lot in theater plays. I saw that a lot. I could probably still, not 25 but more because that was longer ago, maybe 30 years from now. I still think I can almost blindfold that walk through some of the scenarios that I used to be around with him.

My parents were divorced, so I just saw him on weekends, some weekends, not all of them. But it was very intense. course, theater happens a lot on weekends and the entertainment and so on. So I did hang out a lot in his sort of workspace, which was a playground for me eventually. all I’m saying is that in those experiences, also seeing a lot of, because you see a theater play, but there’s a lot of it.

You know, going over, over and over the text over and over again and setting up things and practicing and seeing how this is going to look and, figuring out how to make the scene look real. You know, but the directors were, but then with the actors and all that. So I was involved in a lot of that, ⁓ as well. Especially because theater in Venezuela, it’s like not profitable for, for the actors or it wasn’t that I don’t know how that’s looking nowadays. So they had to do, if they, if somebody was, you know, wanted to, my dad’s main.

medium what he enjoyed the most was theater he studied acting unlike most other actors of his time in Venezuela like he was very well above in that sense the excellence he also he also tried to pass on ⁓ so so most of the the the the dedication you know where his mind was at was on theater that’s what he studied as an actor and

But it was not very profitable. So he had to do soap operas when he found movies as well, which was not very, very often. There was not too many productions back home at the time. That’s where he sort of made a living. The theater just brought in some income, but it didn’t really make too much of a difference. so that’s why another reason why a lot of these people were doing things on weekends. And that’s why I was more involved. And I remember specifically there was literally a scene where somebody was supposed to slap an old lady. You there was sort of snap out of it. Right.

situation. And I remember they were, you know, the typical tricks that they do, right? Of course, you’re not really going to slap a person, right? A fellow colleague and whatnot. So that you do tricks to make it look like you slap others. So the thing is, eventually what they did was, you know, the person was receiving the slap was going to raise their hand and the other person was going to do as if they were slapping and it was going to knock on their hand. If you’re seeing this in video, this is probably going to make a little bit more sense when I show it.

So the idea I had, like I saw this many times and I felt it wasn’t believable. We were talking about believability before. So I came up with an idea, right? Which eventually came to be used on set. I’m very excited about that, of course. That this person was like sort of confounded and their head was hurting or something like that. They were sort of struggling with something. was like, look, why not just have your hand close to your face, right? Somehow, like she was, I think she was holding her cheek or something.

It’s like you have your hand here and then when the slap comes, it’s easier to just move your hand a little. So you slap it and it’s, it’s hard to see this movement than if you have your hand down here and then you bring your hand. So it knocks and it sounds like a slap. It’s like, wow, that’s a great idea. Right? So that, kind of thinking of looking into the believability and, and, and seeing how things come together was something that I learned from that time of, know, just hanging around and seeing him as a.

as a director, which is something I really enjoyed. And when we’re creating gamified projects, this is something that is definitely very, very important. Like how do you introduce believability? How do you connect this to the audience? How does everything come together? Like all those things of directing, least these theater plays was great. I remember even going around, there was this theater play, was one of the most probably successful in that sense. They sort of presented in the Capitol.

in Caracas and then they went all around the country, right? And different where they had, you know, essentially a theater that was large enough to hold this play and to have enough audience to pay for the tickets and so on to make it somewhat profitable. They went around and I think it was like, I don’t know, like 20 theaters or something like that. I went maybe to six or seven. It was, it was very exciting, but that was a very successful theater play. And that was something again, I was seeing. And when they moved to each of these places, they also sort of used a little bit of local talent.

because they have sort of the main actors, but then they have a lot of extras as well. It could literally be I once sneaked in as an extra. Not very believable. Of course, I was maybe nine, 10 years old. But you know, people, don’t know if they noticed or not, but it was lot of fun for me. But what I’m saying is like anybody could do that if you had any sort of acting interest and so on. So those are some of the things I learned, you know, just.

sort of wrapping it up, you know, the world of superheroes was introduced to me by my dad. Also seeing and making video games be something normal and acceptable, so to speak, for adults at that time was introducing me in general to the world of video games and having somebody else to sort of hold my hand while I was struggling and grinding through some of the video games. That was something I definitely got from him. Got from him too. The whole importance of, you know, this has nothing to do with

gamification, know, keeping yourself healthy, which, you know, some apps as well, and some of gamified apps that, that I’ve seen and worked with have a lot to do with that, you know, keeping up with your health and it has to do with that physical activity overall sort of considering other people, right. then through generosity, responding kindly. I think that’s something that I try. I try to live up to as much as I can often. And then that, that sort of, I even want to call it fondness for the audience.

trying to put yourself in that perspective and trying to see and understand how they would react to this, how they would view it so that you can create an experience that is believable. And in that case, it was theater plays. In my case, it’s something slightly different, like gamified apps or even interactive ⁓ media, like things like escape rooms and physical activity and physical activities, so to speak. So those are some of the lessons I took, some of the great memories I still have. ⁓

Of course, it saddens me not to have my dad with me for these last 25 years. It’s been a long time. But I’m also really happy that he was my dad, of course, and that he was in my life and that I had the chance to learn all of this thing. So dad, Mariano, I didn’t call him dad. I used to call him Mariano for some reason, like his name. I’m not sure why. Mariano, wherever you are, this tribute goes to you with all my love.

of the good memories, everything I learned. Thank you. Thank you. Just thank you for being there, being who you were in many ways. you know, perhaps see you someday. Right. Love you, Dad.

 

End of transcription