Rob Alvarez
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David Chislett with the Creative and Playful Mind | Episode 162

Listen to this episode on your phone! Born in Britain, raised in South Africa, resident in The Netherlands. Nowhere and Everywhere are home for David. A published author, poet, musician and artist. Has also been an entrepreneur for over 25 years. The link that joins everything in my life together is creativity. By sharing what he knows about this human capacity he aims to improve the world, one presentation at a time. He has been on stage in one capacity or another since 1980. Bringing experience, research, humor and passionate energy to every presentation. When writing a poem, he solves a problem: how to express a specific feeling in a way that will be recognized and empathized with. And every time he trains, speaks or coaches, he aims to do the same thing: solve or help solve the problem that lies in front of the client. He is forever curious, which leads him to always ask WHY… and HOW? As a result, his career has enabled me to join dots across many worlds. In film, they say there are only 4 stories. In life, solutions from one sphere often work well in another. He believes we are all creative and that making creativity a skill in your armory of tools will empower you to observe, analyze and make decisions. His speaking is aimed at helping individuals, teams and companies get better at utilizing, rowing and improving their creative capacities because creativity will help us be the best versions of ourselves.   Guest Links and Info   Links to episode mentions:   Lets’s do stuff together! Looking forward to reading or hearing from you, Rob   Full episode transcription Rob (5s): Welcome to Professor Game Podcast, where we interview successful practitioners of games, gamification and game thinking who bring us the best of their experiences to get ideas, insights, and inspiration that help us in the process of getting the students to learn what we teach. And I’m Rob Alvarez. I teach and work at IE Business School in Madrid, where we create interactive and engaging learning materials. Want to know more? Go to professorgame.com/subscribe, start on our email list and ask me anything! Engagers welcome to another episode of the professor game podcasts. And today we have David, but David, are you prepared to engage? David (47s): Absolutely. Rob (48s): David was born in Britain, raised in South Africa and is now a resident in the Netherlands. So everywhere and nowhere is home. He’s also a published author, poet, musician, and artist. He’s also been involved and an entrepreneur for over 25 years and he thinks that link that joins everything in his life together, is creativity. So very important for us creating and designing games, gamification game-based learning and all related things. And by sharing what he knows about his human capacity aims to improve the world one presentation at a time, he has been on stage in one capacity or another since, get this, 1980, he’s bringing experience research, humor, and passionate energy to every presentation. Rob (1m 32s): There are many more things we could talk about, but we are going to get into them along with the interview because of course, he is forever curious. He asking why he’s asking how so let’s do this in the interview. So is there anything we missed David that you think should be mentioned before we kick-off? David (1m 47s): Of course, one more thing, which is that I’m also the co-founder of the playful creative summit, which is an annual online summit dedicated to the subjects of play and games. And of course creativity. Rob (1m 59s): Absolutely. Absolutely. That actually makes a lot of sense. That is happening as early next year in 2021, right? David (2m 6s): That’s correct. 21st of April, 2021, it kicks off. Rob (2m 9s): That makes a lot of sense. That sounds very, very interesting. We’ll probably be getting into that during the interview, along to the end, we’ll see where the interview takes us. So David, first thing, what is it like a regular day, a regular week? What is your life look like? We want to know what is being David looked like today. David (2m 27s): Well, oddly enough, you know, with the whole global pandemic and locked down and all that stuff, my life hasn’t changed very much at all. I’m very much in an early morning kind of person. So I get up when it’s still dark because I don’t get interrupted then. And I can have a lot of peace and quiet to do my thinking. So I tend to spend my mornings writing, developing things like training programs, writing blogs, I’m currently working on a book. And I think that requires dedicated thinking and the exercise of some kind of skill generally like writing because I get up so early, that means that more or less by about two, three o’clock, I’m pretty useless when it comes to intellectual power. David (3m 15s): So that’s when I do slightly more social kinds of things like having meetings or doing household tasks and that kind of stuff. I also have two small kids, so there’s a lot of running around in the morning and in the evening. And so by the time the sun goes down and the kids have gone to bed, I like to read, maybe watch a series or what have you. But as you can imagine, there’s not much else other than that happening right now. Thanks to the current global situation. Rob (3m 44s): Many things have changed. That was that’s the topic of a conference that I recently attended to the Gamification Europe conference, where we were talking about all these things and the theme of the conference this year was literally the word disruption. So I think it’s, it’s not just the topic of that conference, but maybe of 2020, I’d say, David (4m 4s): Well, it’s interesting. I think the word disruption is often misused quite selectively. And I think when you start talking about what’s happening in the world right now, yes, that is true disruption. Normally people are talking about Airbnb and Uber, which are basically just giving middle-class people more ways to spend their money. That’s not really disruptive. Rob (4m 26s): Absolutely. That makes a lot of sense. I guess there could be many, many different arguments and, and, you know, sort of chats around what are these innovative startups doing and, and how, how they’ve changed or not changed the way that people are, as you said, spending their well and hard-earned money. But David, we’d like to get into, into a question, which is, I mean, to be honest, it’s been one of the most important questions in this podcast because it’s brought us so many insights so much about our very, very interesting guests. And we’d like to know about a time when you set out to do something and something creative, something playful. And of course, as many times it happens, it didn’t go your way. Rob (5m 6s): So things went down, it was a failure, or it was a fail or first attempt in learning. So we want to be there with you. We want to learn from that lesson. We want to know how you got out of it. What did you take from that? What would you do differently in the future? So again, tell us through that story. We want to, we want to live it with you. David (5m 20s): Well, I think, you know, as a, basically a professional creative every day involves some kind of a failure. And I think that’s one of the beauties of having a creative mindset is that those individual so-called failures just don’t really feel like that. I think possibly the biggest particular failure was when I was still in high school. I decided that instead of finding a good one-act play in order to enter into the local high school competition, I was going to write one because last year I’d won using someone else’s play. And I say, well, I know how to do this now. And we came stone last. I think what I took out of that is that you just don’t know enough from one iteration ever and that you will always discover more things when you revisit old projects. David (6m 13s): And quite often you’ll discover that actually there was some really good stuff there, but maybe, I mean, in my case, in this particular example, my, my skills weren’t up to it quite frankly. And quite possibly my ideas were more ambitious than my ability to deliver, but I mean, that’s what the perspective of 30 or so years at the time it was, yeah, nocked me pretty hard. It didn’t stop me from writing, but I did kind of think, well maybe, maybe fear isn’t the ultimate expression of what I want to be doing. And I moved on to, on to short stories and, and to poetry, which has proved to be a lot more successful for me. Rob (6m 52s): Interesting. Is there like, again, when, when you, you mentioned one of the things, was that saying, you know, just one iteration is not necessarily enough. Is there something that you would have approached differently? I know this is sort of in the further past at this point, but taking from that, is there like a lesson or something that you would do differently? Like you had a similar thing going on today, what would you do approach in a different way? David (7m 15s): Well, I think the biggest lesson I’ve learned most recently is that it’s better not to work totally solo in isolation, you know, in the gaming world. Of course, I doubt that that ever happens. You kind of require a team to be able to put a modern digital game together. But the notion of writing a script for a play is one of those kinds of romantic high art notions that you lock yourself up in the tower and only eat bread and drink water until it’s finished. And then it’s magically wonderful. And I think when I was 17, I might’ve believed that a little bit too much and I didn’t ask anybody to read it or to give me any feedback. David (7m 54s): So it ended up being very self-indulgent. So if I were to attempt that again, the first thing I would do is present someone with a draft for feedback, and then think about that feedback, take on board, whatever I perceived to be valid and useful and go again, you know, and then it was better. Rob (8m 17s): Absolutely. So the iterations, the getting early feedback is something that is, is definitely a very, very important topic in these lands of again, designing playful, being creative, creating games and all of these things. So thank you for that story. I think it was very, very interesting. And, and again, when we get very personal about these things, that it shows that these things are not only authentic but also that they make sense in the real world. It’s not just about having these, these beautiful theories and don’t get me wrong. I work all around. I work at a university, so I’m surrounded by fantastic academics and researchers were doing a great job, figuring out some of the biggest questions in the, in the, and in the business world, especially where I’m at. Rob (8m 58s): But sometimes it’s also interesting and nice to see that firsthand experience. It doesn’t mean it’s, you know, statistically relevant, but it does make sense for many of us from a personal perspective. So thank you for that story, David. And of course, we don’t just want to talk about those difficult moments. We also like to talk about, you know, success. So is there any story again about creating something playful? You know, that it wasn’t, you know, it wasn’t, it was difficult or not, but it ended up being a success, something that you can sort of have that proud moment about. We want to be there and sort of live that moment with you, but also, you know, get one or two things that you say you could attribute part of that success to. David (9m 34s): Well, yeah, I, I, as a bit of a, a game, actually just as a bit of messing around and playing about, I started publishing some of the poetry I was writing on Facebook back in about 2009, 2010. You know, it was literally, I’d been writing poetry my whole life, but most people didn’t realize I was a poet. And I was like, ah, you know, social media poetry, why not? We’ll give it a go. And I put a couple of poems up and I really wasn’t taking it seriously. I had no end goal in mind. It was quite, it was quite a, I mean it was poetry, so it was serious stuff, but it was also done in quite a playful way. David (10m 16s): And I was just blown away by the reactions I was getting. Not that everyone was telling me that my poetry was wonderful, but people were reading a poem, which I thought was, you know, quite light, maybe a little bit silly. And they were like going, wow, well, that’s such a powerful insight and resonated so much has happened in my life. And, and then the one that I put up a poem and I was like, this is the best thing I’ve written in ages. It was fantastic. I was really pleased and no one reacted, you know, there were no likes and there were no comments. And then a couple of days later, I put up a piece, I was like, you know, not sure about this one. And everyone was going mad. I’m like, wow, that’s so good. David (10m 57s): And I was like, I’m in the middle of this, of this kind of noncommittal mucking around with social media. I learned something quite profound and important, which was that my opinion of the relative quality of what I was writing could not be trusted. And so what I did was I said, okay, I’m going to publish a poem every single day. And I did every single workday for 18 months. I published a poem on Facebook. And at the end of that, I selected about 110 of those and sent them off to an actual literary editor who whittled it down to 90. And I published a book and only selected the poems that were the ones that the people on Facebook said that they liked. David (11m 41s): So what started out as a bit of a game, a bit of a, you know, a bit of fun with my, with my poetry, turned into an actual, fully-fledged published paperback book with an accompanying ebook. And at one stage the CD were musicians, I knew took some of the poems and turn them into songs and recorded them in their home studios. So, I mean, that was an unexpected win. Rob (12m 6s): Absolutely. And again, there’s, there’s, I mean, for me, there are many things that we could take from that. And there are sort of many roads we could get into from there. But what is, you know, one of those things that you say this was maybe unexpected, maybe, maybe it was expected. I don’t know. One of those things that you would say, well, this is sort of, part of my success could come because of this. Like what, what would you be sort of your message after living through something like this, David (12m 31s): If you don’t show up, if you don’t start, you know, nothing’s going to happen. And if you do start almost anything can happen. And that was the thing for me. I was like, wow, look at that. All of a sudden I’m a published poet that hadn’t would, that would never have happened if I hadn’t just had the guts the one day to go, you know what? I’m going to share this stuff. Even though nobody thinks I’ve heard or knows that I’m a poet, I’m going to start sharing this. Rob (12m 54s): Absolutely showing up, putting in the work, showing it to other people. I mean, that, that always, always, always is very, very helpful. And I’m sure it could be something that could, I mean, something could come out of it and it could be something fantastic. It could be not much. I mean, there’s, there’s, that’s, that’s part of the beauty of it. We don’t know what we’re getting into until results come in, but if you don’t try, you’ll never know. David (13m 19s): Yeah. I think sometimes that the skill that people in this world need to learn the most is it’s not how to do things well or properly. It’s how to start, how to start doing things. Lisa, you will seem a bit scared about that. Yes. Rob (13m 32s): Start and do it. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, David, you’ve been, we’ve been talking about the creative process. We’ve been talking about playfulness when you approach a project in which you need to use these skills. Is there any, I don’t know, process thought process ways of approaching things, or just, I dunno, brainstorming, however you want to call it. How do you do when you approach one of these projects? What’s your, again, it could be your process. You could call it another way. How do you approach these things? David (13m 59s): I think for me, I’m not really a high detail kind of person. I’m very much a big picture kind of guy. So I tend to go big, straight up. I don’t start thinking about characters or themes or the mechanics of how the thing’s going to work. I tend to want to rather think about the end product. What is the thing going to be? What is it going to do? How do I want it to look? And once I’ve got that idea pretty well, sketched out, then I will start drilling down into the details, which means that the big idea obviously changes as I go along. But what I’ve found in my career is that if you will, for me anyway, if I don’t have an endpoint in mind, I find it difficult to stay the course to actually finish the project. David (14m 47s): So by starting with a really big idea, that kind of defines the endpoint. And then I, it much easier to go through the process of structuring a building and, you know, splitting it up into parts because I, I’ve got a pretty good idea about where I’m going. So that’s pretty much my method with everything, I go big, and then go, all right, how do we reverse engineer them? Rob (15m 8s): Huh, so it’s going big, look at the big picture, look at the sort of the overall strategy. What is it you want to go for and then get into the details. And again, let sort of dividing this into these two parts. Sounds fantastic. Is there sort of any tips, you know, we, we want to go big. How do we go about it? What’s is there any way for you to come up with ideas? Can you sort of give us a little tip on that one? And then of course, once you have that idea, what’ll be sort of the next step. How would you approach David (15m 34s): Right. Well, I think when you’re, when you’re ideating, when you’re trying to come up with a great new idea for something, the first thing you need to be able to do is to switch off your internal critic. You know, that monkey mind, which is going, that’ll never work. You’re an idiot. C’mon, you know, so you’ve got to get into the habit of suspending judgment. And I find one of the easiest ways to do that is to say to yourself, all right, let’s pretend that we have got all the money, all the expertise, we’ve got all the tools, we’ve got all the equipment, we’ve got all the people we’ve got, the team that we need. So in other words, there are no barriers to achieving what we want to achieve here. Now, given that we have all of that, what are we going to do? David (16m 16s): And then the second technique I like to use is to just ask the question, what if, you know, so what if we could create a 3d interactive game that can be connected to a carbon printer so that people could actually create their character at home? What if, and, you know, just run with it because what if isn’t a serious question? So our interior critic tends to kind of let us get away with all sorts of crazy stuff when we’re saying, what if, but, but what happens is then out of that craziness, you start to see these glimmers of gold, which you can then pull out and apply your rational, rational, mind to, and then say, okay, well, that’s actually a pretty good idea. David (16m 59s): How can we practically make that happen? And then you just think about the first step, which, what is the smallest thing I can do right now that puts me on the road towards making that idea a reality. And then what’s the next step. And what’s the next step? You know, there’s a great saying that says, how do you eat an elephant? You cut it into really small pieces. And I tend to approach ideas, ideation, and projects in much the same way. Rob (17m 24s): Oh, interesting. Interesting, very, very good tips. I have to say very useful way of sort of approaching these things. So thank you very much for that as well. David (17m 34s): Cool. Rob (17m 34s): Just a quick break before we continue, are you enjoying this podcast? If you’re listening through a podcasting app, please subscribe and rate us on the app. This will be of great help to reach more engagers so we can change the world together through gamification. And thinking about these things, this process, you you’ve given us many tips, many practical ideas that we’ve gone through. Is there any sort of, I don’t know, best practice when you’re, when you’re coming up with ideas and you’re getting diving into playfulness. Are there any, again, best practices that, and I like to call these things silver bullets in any way, but yeah, David (18m 8s): Well look, I think if you observe your average working day over a period of weeks, you’ll probably notice that there is one time of day where you’re golden, you know, where things are just going smoothly. You’re solving problems, you’re coming up with ideas yet. You’re whacking it out. It’s all happening. You know, it’s kind of like a biorhythmic thing. You know, a lot of people are, you know, there’s, people are morning. People are people afternoon. People are, people are night owls. But apart from that, I’m talking more about this idea of the, is there a particular time of day where it’s easier for you to get into flow? And there is. Pretty much everyone has got it. So the trick is to spend a couple of weeks observing yourself quietly and just make a mental note when you’re on the song when things are going really well. David (18m 53s): And then what you want to do is you want to reserve that time for your creative thinking. You don’t want to be starting to come up with really good ideas and revolutionary procedures and great design when you’re tired when you’ve just woken up and you’re groggy, or when you’re at the end of the day or when you’re hungry because it’s just before lunch, you want to be your best possible self. So, and then you got to set that time aside, not every now and then, but every day, because look, creativity is not a skill as such, but like a skill, the more you access it, the more you do it, the easier it goes, the better you get at getting into it. David (19m 36s): It becomes it’s like muscle memory. You know, the more you practice it, the less you have to think about doing it. And one of the critical things about the creative mindstate is that you must not try too hard. So if you’ve got a regular appointment with yourself at 9:00 AM, Monday to Friday to show up and to do some brainstorming and some ideas, or to be sketching or to be, you know, writing down plans, looking at game flows or whatever it is that you’re doing, you will find that after about a month of doing that, you are able to step into that world so effortlessly, and you’ll be able to make so much more progress because the mechanics of it have become automated, allowing your unconscious mind to step to the fore with more surprising combinations and approaches than you would ever be able to come up with. David (20m 25s): If you went into a team brainstorm once every two months. Rob (20m 29s): Hmm. Interesting. So basically making of what that, what you want to achieve, especially in a creative fashion making of it a habit, right? David (20m 37s): Yeah. And I think, you know, I think the same applies to play to gaming. You know, it’s Pavlov’s dog, right. Bell rings, dog drools. Rob (20m 49s): I turn on my PlayStation. I know what happens next. David (20m 52s): And if you do it exactly the same time every day, you know, you will back where you were the day before in a heartbeat. Rob (20m 58s): Huh? So times of the day taking a look at that is, seems to be very, very important, at least in your experience. And that sounds great. There are people who say morning person night person, to be honest, I’ve I might have to take a look and observe myself a bit more, but I can’t say I’m a morning or a night person. I know, I don’t want to say too late at night, but it’s not like, Oh yeah, the morning is the prime time or, you know, 9:00 PM is the prime time. I haven’t figured that out. Maybe I have to, David (21m 25s): Well, maybe that’s because your prime time is, you know, somewhere between 11:00 AM and 3:00 PM. Rob (21m 31s): Hm Hm. Interesting. We’ll take a look at that for sure. David (21m 34s): Cool. Rob (21m 35s): So, David, there’s, there are other things that are very important for us and, one of them is guests like you. Very, very important in this podcast and you know, guests have ideas, they hear these questions and they say, they sometimes imagine, Oh, imagine this or that person answering to that question is, is there again somebody that comes to your mind when you listen to these questions when you heard the podcast? Oh, I wish I had, they had interviewed this person or whatever somebody comes to your mind? David (22m 1s): Well, you know, as I said to you before, before we started this whole process, I’m not much of a game or a gamification kind of a guy. So for me, I would be really interested in speaking to a neuroscientist by the name of David Eagleman because he’s been doing a lot of research into how the human brain does what it does when it comes up with ideas. I would literally love to pick his brain. Rob (22m 28s): Absolutely, absolutely. Sounds like an exciting guest. We’ve had some people that are the spoken about the brain and, and, and about some of the substances going around in the brain as well. We’ve had a couple of those guests, very, very interesting, but he sounds like a very interesting person as well. And with a very interesting focus in that sense and, and keeping up with the recommendations, would you recommend any book, maybe again, from your field of creativity of playfulness, is there anything that you would recommend us to how you know, in, in our bookcase David (22m 60s): Sure, I think there are two, well, maybe not three books that have made a big impact on me in the last couple of years. The first one is Carol Dweck’s book about mindset. I think it’s just called mindset, which is all about this idea that we need to have a growth mindset, which has got a lot to do with resilience has got a lot to do with overcoming failure, you know, apropos your, your earlier question. It’s actually such a simple formula, but it, it, it just makes such enormous sense. So mindset Carol Dweck. Absolutely. Rob (23m 34s): That makes a lot of sense that, that book I’ve heard of it. I haven’t read it, but I think, you know, shifting your mindset or putting a mindset in the right place is something that can help us do fantastic things. David (23m 46s): Yeah, absolutely. And then more recently I’m reading a book called How to do nothing and the subtitle is resisting the attention economy, which is all about, as you can imagine, social media and screen time, and this idea that actually our attention is worth money. So why are we giving it away to social media platforms when we should be spending it on ourselves? It’s quite a radical book, actually. It’s quite revolutionary in terms of trying to get people to revolt. I’m really enjoying that. It’s quite, you know, I spend all day on the internet. We all do at the moment though. We, I mean, and then you read this book where they kind of going, well, all you’re doing is subjecting yourself to an algorithm, which is narrowing your focus and narrowing your ability to connect with the world around you. David (24m 36s): It’s quite a scary read, but it’s also got some really positive and, and strategies and techniques built into it as well. So that one’s definitely worth looking out for how to do nothing. Rob (24m 48s): It sounds absolutely fantastic. And you’re saying that, and I was remembering a, not only a past guest but also his most recent book. I don’t know if you’ve heard of Nir Eyal, the Hooked Model. Well, now he has his latest book is called Indistractable and it’s all about, you know, getting back your attention. And we, we talked about this in a recent interview. Well, recent, he was episode 100 so 50 episodes ago, but I think there is something very interesting coming up in sort of that resistance movement to all those, again, it’s social media, but it’s so many things as well that are calling our attention and where we’re losing our focus in many ways. Yeah. David (25m 26s): Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree. Rob (25m 29s): So when, when talking about these things, we’ve talked about distraction, but what would you say is actually your, your superpower, that thing that you do probably better than at least most people, you know, in the world or in your community, whatever, whatever you want to go for? Like, what is that thing that makes you in a way special? David (25m 45s): I think What I’m doing right now, I’m, I mean, I’m not going to say I’m a really good public speaker, but I seem to have an ability to articulate concepts and to explain ideas in a way that makes them very much more accessible to a wide range of people than possibly even the person who, the person who wrote the idea down in the first place. Verbally, I’ve got quite a way with explaining stuff. And I don’t even know really how it works. And that’s why I guess I’ve dive so deeply into this whole idea of what creativity is and how it works. Because I believe that it’s at the root of my ability to assimilate information process it resynthesize it. David (26m 29s): And then broadcast that out in a slightly different form that’s, I think if I look at my, my skillset, I, that’s definitely the thing I’m like, wow, okay. I think that’s the thing I’m the best at. Rob (26m 41s): It makes a lot of sense. That is very, very, very important because it’s not only about being able to do things, which is super important but sometimes as well, we need inspiration. We need to understand things, to be able to do things and somebody has to help us understand. And that’s what, you know, it’s one of my passions, which is all about teaching and helping other people understand. So I had to say that’s near to my heart for sure. David. David (27m 3s): Yeah. Cool. Rob (27m 6s): So David is there any final piece of advice you want to leave the engagers with remember these, these, this audience of people who are all into creative processes, playfulness, game design, all of these things. Is there any final piece of advice you want to leave us with? David (27m 18s): Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, gaming is a huge industry. Gamification has become a real business buzzword and it’s getting mutilated and abused left-right and center. And I think if you’re active in that play space rule number, one’s got to be, there are no rules. You should be breaking. Absolutely every single one of them, every single game theory, every single design theory, everything that everyone’s ever told you that this is the way you’ve got to break it. Because if you want to do something new, if you want to do something interesting, you can’t just carry on doing what has already been done. And that takes courage and it takes conviction. But for me, it’s the way to newness, to new thoughts and to new processes. Rob (28m 2s): That makes a lot of sense. And thank you very much for that. And I know I didn’t, I don’t want to let you go because the way we, we got to meet each other, the way we got to get into contact is because of this summit that you were organizing along with your partner. But yeah. Tell us about that. Like, like what is it all about? Tell us where we can find more about that before we end this interview. David (28m 22s): Thank you. Yeah. The summits simply called the playful creative summit and you can visit this, the site for it played playfulcreativesummit.com at the moment, it still has the information up from the 2020 summit. The second edition will take place from the 21st of April, 2021. And the summit is aimed at anybody who is interested in the topics of play and games and creativity. Our speakers are selected from all around the world from multi-disciplines, but they are all professionals who work with play and creativity every single day. And what they do during their interviews is to share their insights, their techniques, some tools and tips in order to help other people to improve their own skillset or to understand these topics better. David (29m 13s): So it’s all online. It’s totally free and it consists of 45 speakers and we don’t really, it’s not live and we don’t run a strict schedule. So once you, once you’re registered, you can watch all the videos at your leisure. You don’t have to log on at nine o’clock to catch whoever, Rob Alvarez, for two o’clock to catch somebody else. You can just log on whenever you’ve got time and select, whichever video has gone live for that day that you want to watch. And in fact, what we’re also doing now is leaving everything live for the whole weekend after the three days of the summit are over. So for those people who have hectic work and family lives, who just aren’t able to watch anything can maybe catch up a bit over the weekend and it’s totally free, which is a big bonus. David (29m 59s): We do have other tiers with added benefits, of course, that you can purchase. But once that goes live towards the beginning of next year, you’ll be able to see that for yourselves. Rob (30m 9s): That sounds amazing. That sounds like a very interesting thing. It’s interesting that you chose to go for that format of just having it there available it’s prerecorded and free as well. I think it’s, it’s a very interesting way of approaching this. I didn’t participate last year. Sounds like something that is worth at least checking out, seeing how it goes. And I would definitely be checking that out myself. So go over there. The playful creative… playfulcreativesummit.com, make sure you check it out, make sure you, you know, you see what’s going on there when the information of 2021 comes up. Do you have any sort of date for that? David (30m 49s): Yeah. The site will go live with registrations being possible at the end of February 2021. Rob (30m 55s): Okay. So we do have kind of a date. Maybe we will get back and talk a little bit more about that what’s coming up in the future, but for now, thank you very much for this information, David, is there any other place you want to lead us to any call to action anywhere we can know more about you? David (31m 10s): My website’s easy enough to find it’s just my name, Davidchislett.com. There you can find out more about the keynotes that I present as well as read any number of articles and download a couple of my eBooks. The poetry book that I told you about is available there also as a free download. So that’s probably the best place to start everything else I do. You can find from there. Rob (31m 31s): That sounds fantastic. So thank you once again, very much for being with us today, David, thank you for all those insights, all that experience that you brought together, all that, you know, the superpower of letting people understand things better through your, your, you know, that this special ability that you do have. And thank you very much for all that. So, however, you know, we’ve been having a good time, but for now, and at least for today, it is time to say that it’s game over. Engagers! Thank you for listening to Professor Game podcast. And I hope you enjoyed this interview with David. And I’d like to know if you have any future questions for future guests. If you do, please go to professorgame.com/question and ask your question if it gets selected. Rob (32m 16s): And as I’ve always said, you have pretty good chances. It will come up in future episodes so that you get your answer. And before you go onto your next mission, before you click continue, remember to subscribe using your favorite podcast app and listen to the next episode of Professor Game. See you there. End of transcription

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