Rob Alvarez
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Felipe Walker Into Game-Based Learning for Business Education | Episode 145

Listen to this episode on your phone! During the last 6 years, he has been teaching courses in the Operations Management area at undergrad, graduate and executive levels. Although he loves teaching, he realized how old fashioned and non-effective is the traditional way of teaching. Based on that experience, he founded GameLab in 2013, an EdTech company that develops online and short-term simulators that enhance the motivation, engagement and learning experience of students at Business Schools. How?… transforming the classroom into a playground!   Guest Links and Info   Links to episode mentions:   Lets’s do stuff together! Looking forward to reading or hearing from you, Rob   Full episode transcription Rob (5s): Welcome to Professor Game podcast, where we interview successful practitioners of games, gamification and game thinking who bring us the best of their experiences to get ideas, insights, and inspiration, to help us in the process of getting the students to learn what we teach. And I’m Rob Alvarez. I teach and work at IE Business School in Madrid, where we create interactive and engaging learning materials. Want to know more? Go to professorgame.com/subscribe, start on our email list and ask me anything! Rob (39s): Welcome engagers to another episode of Professor Game podcast, where we are with Felipe and Felipe before we kick-off, are you prepared to engage? Felipe (50s): I am. I am. Rob (51s): Let’s do this because, during the last six years, Felipe has been teaching courses in operations management area at undergrad graduate and executive levels. And although he loves teaching, you realized how old fashioned a noneffective is the traditional way of teaching. And based on that experience, he founded GameLab in 2013, which is an ad tech company that develops online and short term simulators that enhance the motivation, engagement and learning experience of students at business schools. Rob (1m 22s): How? Transforming the classroom into a playground. And from reading that you probably can tell very, very quickly why we have Felipe with us today. So, Felipe, is there anything we’re missing from that intro that our listeners should know? Felipe (1m 35s): No, it’s absolutely. I mean, you did the research. I have to say. Yeah. I teach at uni, particularly pricing, and revenue management. I realized like, like students that sometimes the students that don’t engage in a regular class sometimes are the best decision takers, or decision-makers in a business simulation class, and they don’t realize that if you want to engage with students and you want those students to really learn by doing probably the best way or one of the best ways is game-based solutions, game-based learning. Felipe (2m 10s): And that’s where it started like a teaching innovation, but then suddenly, like we start to see that the market that has been growing and, and then we, from 2018, we dedicated full time and we will receive some seed money from angel investors in order to keep things growing. So now we have a team of nine people in there in the team, and we’re very excited about the changes that have been, has been accelerating with, with the Coronavirus. Felipe (2m 41s): I mean, at the university has to move digital, I mean, digital, digital classes, and one of the best ways to do it is with simulations. Rob (2m 51s): Absolutely. And that’s the very appropriate topic nowadays talking about how to digitalize our learning experiences, which has been a challenge for many and has opened as well, new markets for companies like yours. And I have to say, Felipe, I feel very identified as a professor of both gamification and operations and, you know, from business schools and so on. So I think we have very much in common. I have to say as well, full disclosure, I did use one of your simulations, the soda pop game in my class. Rob (3m 21s): It was one of the simulations that I use. One of the games that we had during our operations management class in IE when I taught the undergrads and I had a very good experience. And of course, that is one of the reasons why you are here with us today. So, Felipe, I would like to start with a story. We always liked stories, especially because of all the things that they can teach us. And as you know, you’re into game-based learning, you realize stories and themes are also part of the way that people learn. So we want to learn from your story. Rob (3m 52s): And this is a story particularly of a time where you set out to do something interesting, challenging, but you know, it didn’t go as you expected. It was a first attempt in learning or a fail or a failure. And we want to learn from that experience with you. We want to see how you got there, how you got out of there. And what did you learn from that? We want to be there with you at the ground level. Felipe (4m 10s): I would have to say they make many mistakes on their way, many, many but some other strikes. But in terms of wrongdoings that we have done in terms of developing games. It’s it’s when, when you, when you engage in a game that you haven’t really tried the dynamics of the game, the mechanics in the game and the audience, and you start to code and you start to work with the programmers and try and start to develop the software that it wouldn’t be, would be this game in the, in the end. Felipe (4m 41s): And then when you finally realize you take the blanket out of the game, and then you try with the, with the audience, you realize that the game is really, really boring, right? This is the worst that could happen, but each with a game, but then suddenly you realize that the game is it’s boring. I mean, it doesn’t engage students. And it’s very important that, so what I would like to, because I have received many professors from when they, when they see the games that we have, we do want to, because it really is growing with this trend. They approached me as if a leader, I have an idea of the game, and I would like to develop a game with you. Felipe (5m 16s): First, developing a game, a good game is expensive. It’s lots of hours of design, lots of hours of programming, lots of hour of developing material because, in the end, it’s a serious game, right? So you have to prepare with the materials that will help the professor to run the simulation and stuff like that. So the first is to start with a, create your game in paper, you know, like create a dynamic, Just, I mean, the analog dynamic, like, and then try the game, in class, like the beergame, which is just analogic way of playing, right? Felipe (5m 49s): Not, not with software, and playing with a game and see how it works. Right? So when, whenever I would try once and many times, and once you really feel comfortable with the game, they actually did the dynamic and the emotion that it produces and the learning that it produces it, it’s, it’s fulfilled your goals, then is when you move to, okay, let’s move this game, digitalize the, the experience, which means to create the software, the piece of software that will allow to that could be, it could be used in other, in other classrooms all over the planet. Felipe (6m 26s): Sorry if I, if I extend a bit. Rob (6m 29s): Well, that sounds great. In fact, I’m going to interrupt you just because that sounds like a very key lesson, but if possible, Felipe, of course, whenever you can disclose, I know some things cannot be disclosed, but can you, can you go sort of deep into one time when this happened to you, we’re very experiential as you know, as humans. So we want to see like, whatever you can share, like, oh, I did this initially and this happened to us and the experience was not great. So we had to go back, like, whatever that looked like one of these times that, that these things happened. Rob (6m 59s): Because as you know, and the audience, I always like to remind, and it’s one of the reasons for this question, we’re not perfect. Not even the best ones in their craft, get it right. The first time necessarily we have a lot of lessons and, and first attempts and learning. So we want to be there with you in that sense. Felipe (7m 15s): No, they give you two examples then. Right? Good. Perfect. Okay. The first one example is a game that actually we take out of the portfolio. The, basically we take up a dynamic that has been published with one professor. Don’t remember the name, there was a marketing game, and then we reply it and dynamic. We make some changes. We didn’t try on with the audience in, as I told you with paper base, we did it regularly with the software. And finally, we, after a lot of work, we, we finished the software. Felipe (7m 47s): We try once in an audience, It was really, really bad. I mean, did the game, didn’t, didn’t engage. Didn’t made the outcomes, the learning outcomes that we wanted. So finally, we take this game out of the portfolio and the reason, I mean, if I, if I, if I go back in time, the problem was not that we, we moved too fast in the design process because the same person you have to do, paper-based at the beginning, you should do that. Try once and again and again and again. And when you’re really comfortable, that actually the game works. Felipe (8m 19s): Then you move to the next day, which is design and software development, right? That’s the first one, the second one, it happened. Like we, we developed a warehouse game, which is actually illustrates the, the reality inside of a warehouse or how you have to manage people around. Right. So basically it’s warehouse operations. And we did though, because we went through a very big wholesale warehouse of like Home Depot, here in Latin America, which is called Sodimac. Felipe (8m 50s): And they say, okay, we want, you guys do simulations, we need in this moment, we need the money. So ok let’s create a game that replicates the warehouse operations. Right? And we did it! And actually the game is very nice, but I mean, very, it looks, and it has very good, look-and-feel, right. And when, when we’re finished, the development of the game, and then we try for first time, the game was really, really complex. I mean, there were so many different levers that you have to manage that it was impossible. Felipe (9m 21s): And I was working with my two developers at that time, like, man, what we did, I mean, what we’re going to talk to the customer, right? So we, because we have to go back to our customer and then we realized: what if, if we played these games as a team, rather than as individuals. And then the game changed from heaven to earth or earth, earth to heaven, whatever. Right. changed 180 degrees because then the game was so fun and also very good in terms of the learning objectives. Felipe (9m 53s): And also foster, it fosters strongly the collaboration. Because you can’t manage a warehouse if you are not collaborating with your teammates. Right? Because I warehouse is basically a big chaos, right? So this was a way that the second example is how we, we face a problem. And then we just, without small change and not even one line of code, we just went at changing perspective. We went from a game that was very complex and then very difficult to play for the players to a very good game. Felipe (10m 26s): Right? Rob (10m 27s): Absolutely. Absolutely. That’s actually a great example, exactly what we wanted to see. Like how did you get there? How did you come out of it? I think that’s, that’s very exciting and, and taking a spin on this and actually going for, I don’t know, a good experience that you had you set out to do. Yeah. I don’t know. It could be the Soda Pop Game. It could be anything else you said, well, this is the challenge that we’re going to face. You faced it, head-on. And it actually went well. It went, you know, you got the results that you wanted. We want to know, you know, what your experience looked like. Of course, if you can attribute any success to any of the factors you want to name, that will be great as well. Rob (10m 59s): But we want to, again, live that story with you. We want to know, you know, sort of the intimacy as much as, as is possible. Felipe (11m 6s): Well, okay. About the, the success uh, what we’re the, the elements of our success. First. It’s a, the pricing game in the pricing game where it started as a learning, a learning innovation. But I did just do increase engagement in my class, in my class of price and revenue management. I started using the dynamic. I mean, a game, that has been designed in paper by a professor from Pompeu Fabra, which is called <inaudible> and basically the fuse game. Felipe (11m 42s): I started playing it in class with a piece of paper. And I didn’t like many times, I would say like over a year? I did it like, like at least five times. Right. But since and then I realized that this game really good, but it would be much better, much, much faster if we can, instead of the students give me this information in a piece of paper. And I wrote these things in the, in the board, and so on. I can play many rounds if we do everything through the computers, right? And with that idea in mind, we digitalize these games and then it works really, really good. Felipe (12m 17s): And then the step to use the professors in the school that I teach. And then we went to a congress in a, in a, in Argentina where professors from different universities from the US came over and then they, we present the game. And then we start to have customers in, NYU, different universities all over. So then we realize that games, that once you take a class and you develop and you craft it in a simulation that actually works and, and fulfill the objectives of this class, then you can replicate this class all over the world. Felipe (12m 50s): And that’s how it started. The pricing. There was one success. And the second success that we had in terms of there is the SodaPop, which is the SodaPop that you tried is not the initial SodaPop Game that we developed. And then we realized that one thing, is to have a good simulator. Alright, you will find professors to have some good, simulator, but a different thing is that you have first a simulator, that has a homework mode, and a classroom mode, that has a full and master panel for the professor. That always also, you will have a lot of teaching material and we mean like we develop learning experiences, which means that you have the piece of software, but also I give you the chances to try any of those experiences that they’re ready to run. Felipe (13m 34s): So for you, you just to focus on the class. And not to focuse on the logistics or in the create the content for the class, right? So it’s very important to be successful, to make things easier for the professor. Right? So two things. So software, second is complementary material. And third is the support. And we realized that the support is a key element of success because at the end you have to help a professor that’s that will be facing an audience, which is risky, right? Because if things go wrong, I mean, who to blame? Felipe (14m 6s): The professor, right? So that’s why we help the professor. That’s why we now with the Coronavirus, some professors are doing the classes online. We came to class with them and we help them to run the simulation we are with him. So he, he felt comfortable that things would work. And if there’s any question that could be difficult at the beginning, we can help with it. Right. So that’s very, very important. Like these three elements, a good piece of software has everything. Felipe (14m 37s): Second, very good learning material. I mean, experiences are all the material ready to run for the professor and third, and the support that we give on. I mean, we are there with you in your class, which is, would you, was something not possible like prior to the Coronavirus? I cannot take a plane. And they’ll do, let’s say Madrid for two hours and came back, right? Rob (14m 57s): Yeah. Yeah. And we were not as used to having all these Zoom meetings and so on. Felipe (15m 2s): Yeah. But now it’s possible and, and experiences matter. And so this is, I mean, it’s a, it’s one thing is the design of the game, but not enough, then you need the other three things in order to scale the game. And then the same class will be teach in so many different schools. Rob (15m 20s): Absolutely. So, Felipe we’ve, we’ve been talking about all these interesting and great experiences. You’ve, you’ve given us some clues about this, but we always like to know, what does it look like when you’re going to create one of these games, one of these simulations for business schools, for your school, for your class, how, how does that work? How can we get into your mind a little bit and see, you know, again, if you have any process, brainstorm, I don’t know? I don’t know how you do it. We want to, we’re going to sort of pick your brain a little bit in that sense. Felipe (15m 46s): Okay. Well we, over the years we, we understood. And we have developed a method, right? I would say, and the method, and even though I tried and we have an agreement, I mean, more than we have an alliance or partnership with University of California at Santa Cruz, they have a master’s in Serious Games. And we have been working with them as well. And when I, when they asked me the same thing, I mean, how, how would you guys develop the games? Because you, serious games is something that is not massive. I mean, it says it’s increasing, but there’s not many people doing it seriously. Felipe (16m 16s): And I answer like.. Well first, and we understood that you need, I mean, from the point that you just said, okay, I want to make a game that’s a queuing game. Okay. I want, I want to teach queuing theories. How can I teach? I really like abstract and difficult and mathematics-based things like queuing to students in order to make it something interesting and fun. So from the moment that you take this challenge, it will be in between three to four months just to develop the architecture of the game, which means to make a, the design or the basic design of the game, which means the context, which is the mechanics of the game. Felipe (16m 56s): So basically it’s, you have a design phase that will take between three to four months in order to create the context in order to create the variables, the mechanics of the game, and finally to develop, this was what I told you before this paper-based prototype, right? So you develop this prototype. And then when you have created this dynamic and works, then you move to the construction phase, which is, I would say three to four months, you know that to take these, all these plans to the developers, and then they will, they will create, the developer. Felipe (17m 32s): Typically two guys, they will create the game and they make it a reality. And then it takes like around two months in order to create all the teaching material that goes with the game. It’s about doing something in between six to nine months because sometimes you can save some time if that person has already created this dynamic, the paper-based one. Right? And that’s something that I encourage professors, if they have ideas, better if you have a paper-based game that you really have tried many times in class, and this is much easier to develop. Felipe (18m 7s): Again from… Did I answer your question? Rob (18m 10s): I think so. I think you were talking about how you, what is the process? How does that look like from, you know, writing the paper-based part until the rest, when you’re writing the paper based version is again, do you follow any steps? You, I dunno, you create the learning objectives or you find out what they are then with that you do this and that, is there any one or two steps that you’d take to create that paper-based dynamic? If you have it, if, if you don’t, it’s fine as well. Felipe (18m 39s): First it’s very important to identify the learning objectives. What is it the three or four elements that you want the students to learn after he has played the game? That’s the main, the main question. I want him to learn this or that. I mean, not many things can not be 10. I mean, no more than three or four, right? That’s the first thing. Rob (19m 1s): Exactly. Felipe (19m 2s): And the second that you have to do is okay. If the student cannot manage more than three variables, three or four variables in order to manage the game in order to, and then to action the game and finally learn what you want them to learn. So if you put like 10 different levels, levers, it would very difficult for the student to really, I would say, understand, and make the connection between the concepts and the game, but if you downsize to three, to four key decisions, then it would be much easier to go with the student with the game in order that he will face different challenges since stages. Felipe (19m 43s): And then finally he will learn everything that you want in this particular, like two-hour set. Right? Rob (19m 51s): Absolutely. And that makes a lot of, it makes a lot of, lot of sense, like understanding what those key actions you want them to do. And I’m guessing as well, it has to do with the practice of those learning objectives that you want them to be doing. Like when you do this in real life, what does it look like? And they’re there, you can start get creative from that. Felipe (20m 10s): Let me give you one example, the pricing game and just sort of, sorry to go back to that, there’s only one decision that the students have to take. And this is our, I have to say again, this is not my game. We digitalized a game, but the paper-based game architecture, it’s from a professor from Pompeu Fabra. But again, the only thing that he has to do, the student, is just to change, I mean, change your price or maintain the price, that’s it. Over the entire, all the rounds of the simulation is the only thing he has to decide is the price. Felipe (20m 40s): That’s it to set the price, but we moved them. We move the student over different rounds and different stages. We change the environment, so it makes it much more difficult to set up the price, the pricing in the different brands, right? So again, it’s: what do you want to teach? And what is the minimum amount of decisions, key decisions, levers at the same time, that the student has to manage in order to move forward into the game. Rob (21m 8s): Fantastic. Fantastic. Just a quick break. Before we continue with this episode, if you’ve been enjoying this podcast, I would really appreciate if you share it with your friends and family and on social media, on Twitter and Instagram, it’s @RobAlvarezB and the hashtag #ProfessorGame, all one word. And in Facebook, you can find the Professor Game page, thanks in advance for your engagement! So, Felipe, we would like to know again, from your experience, from what you have observed and seen throughout your time at GameLab and your experience as a professor, is there any sort of best practice, anything that you would say, well, if you’re going to, you know, sort of go head-on and use or create a game-based learning experience, is there something that, you know, again, would be sort of a best practice, something that you would recommend other people to do as well? Felipe (21m 59s): Yeah. Best practices. I will start from the basics, but just give you a little bit of time to prepare the, I mean, to get comfortable with the simulation, right? That’s very important in order to, because if you, if you’re new, I mean, your students will be new for the simulation, but for you should not be a new thing, right? I mean, you have to give yourself a time. I mean, ahead of time to really learn how the simulation works, play as a student. So you will, you will go through the same road that the students would face. Felipe (22m 33s): That’s, that’s very important, I guess, because I see so many professors all over the world, I would say that not everyone does their homework, right? That’s the first thing do your homework. And second thing, which is very important, it’s like, it’s good to start, I mean, hopefully, use your, that, that you send the students, an easy scenario of the simulation that you want to try in advance. So they try and then play against the computer. Let’s say with a simulation. So they get familiar with the simulation. Felipe (23m 4s): And also they learn a bit about the concepts, but not yet too much, but at least they get familiar with the simulation. So when you get into class, they will not make you trivial questions about the game. They know already, but now, because they’re getting to class, they know they will compete and they will play everyone together. I would say in a synchronous mode, you know, synchronous mode. And then it’s good. What I like is first go over to the simulation. Like, I mean, play the simulation with a more difficult scenario and let the students to make decisions, based on intuition, right? Felipe (23m 40s): Why? Because some of them would make very good decisions. Some others will not right. But after that, after they play that, then you go to the debriefing and then they will identify why they make those decisions based on intuition and why they were good or bad decisions. And from that point, you move to the content. And then you explain why, if you guys, all of us have the content in advance, we would be way better decision-makers, right. So they will make the gap, sorry, they would make the bridge in between the content and the experience that they just have lived. Felipe (24m 16s): Right. So after that, you send them either another humbled with a game, or maybe you adjust download the data and send, and give the students okay. Now identify your mistakes and you’re on, would you have done better? Now that you can look at your data and the data of your competitors, let’s say your, your other classmates. So, Rob (24m 40s): absolutely. Felipe (24m 41s): We’re trying to say it’s important to leave, I mean, to let the intuition, do they work, And then you as a professor go with the content. Rob (24m 52s): Absolutely, absolutely. That makes a lot of sense to incorporate, because of the briefing, as you were saying, is something fundamental, but the way to approach it, that you, that you’re proposing seems very, very interesting and sensitive as well. And in that sense, you’ve recommended, you know, this, this, these best practices. Is there a person after hearing, you know, all of these things that we’ve been talking about is, is there a person that you would like to listen to answering these questions like you, another guest for the Professor Game podcast? Felipe (25m 20s): Well, he’s not alive, but I would love to hear him. It’s ah Peter Drucker. I mean, Peter Drucker was somebody that, that really, really know about management, his approach was very based on experience. And I guess one of the wrongdoings in teaching management is to start always from the content and only from the content. Which is if management is the art of making good decisions. So, if you want to make good decisions, you must have find a space to try it right? Felipe (25m 50s): Exactly. To practice and to see what was good, what was wrong. And from this point, move on. So I will not, I mean, if I have somebody that would like to learn, I mean, or hear about it. And typically like to hear about how to teach management with simulators is Peter Drucker, but suddenly, suddenly he’s not alive. Rob (26m 15s): Absolutely. Absolutely. And again, with recommendations and again, here, you know, being alive or no longer with us does not make much of a difference. Is there a book that you would recommend to our audience, to The Engagers? Felipe (26m 27s): Well, more than a book related to professor, I mean, to professors that want to use a game-based learning approach or, or a book it like a, more like an open mindset of book. Rob (26m 41s): Whatever you want to go for. If you’re thinking of people who are willing or interested in creating or using game-based learning in their classrooms, what book would you recommend them read again, whether it’s to improve their designs, to get inspiration or whatever, whatever route you want to go down. Felipe (26m 56s): I wouldn’t, I would suggest two things. One, it’s it’s a course because I don’t know the book, but the course of a professor from Wharton, he was teaching gamification. I took his school like four years ago and he helped me to, to, to understand the basics. I mean, what things need to be included in a game. Like leaderboards, some mechanics, I didn’t understand because I was not a very like, helps me, help me to, to put things together in terms of what it’s needed to develop a game. Felipe (27m 29s): Right. I mean, in, in to develop gamification. Rob (27m 33s): That is Kevin Werbach from the Coursera course. And he also has a book. The book is called For the Win, Felipe (27m 40s): Exactly. I didn’t read the book, because like I took the class but yes, this is. And actually, I, I did have an interview with him, like many years ago when we went to, to Wharton for the management education awards and we won one of those awards. And the other book which is, I think it’s very important for, for, for people are always engaging in these, or maybe it’s a book which is called, it’s called Crossing the Chasm from Geoffrey Moore. And why? Felipe (28m 10s): Because it’s a very good book in terms like you are developing technology at the end. And at the beginning, you engage with, with the innovators and with early adopters. But they, there is a point in time that, that you have to cross the chasm to the early majority. And this is the most difficult thing, right? And this is when you move something which is a good innovation into a product that will be, will solve the problem of a, of a very pragmatic segment of customers. And this is exactly where we have now, and now we are in fulfilling that, that need of professors all over because we were robust our products in order to serve a purpose. Felipe (28m 49s): And the purpose of professors is to teach and to have engaged a, very well engaged audience. Right. And let this audience to learn with that tools and the tools down is the games. Rob (29m 1s): Crossing the chasm. That’s absolutely a fantastic book. I love it. That’s yeah. It’s and it’s good for, for innovators, for innovation. It’s something many things to take into account. And what would you say, Felipe, now that you’ve recommended other people and their books, what would you say is in your case for you, what is your sort of your super power, your, your sweet spot, that thing that you do great, that that has allowed you to be in the place where you’re at at and your company Felipe (29m 27s): As a company, as a group, we develop, we have a passion for education. We really, our motto is let the student learn. I mean, we want the student to learn. That’s the most important thing. And that’s why we, that fun is an important ingredient. And the learning of this that’s the first. Second I am very lucky because I’m able to, to get, get myself together with a very talented people that helped me to, to develop this company. Felipe (29m 59s): So I would say that most of the congratulations go to them, not with me. I’m just, I just was the beginning. I was that initial guy, right? The, the one thing it’s, I mean, what I like to do is just to just spend time with professors from all over, eh, showing the games and showing how they can actually make a much more interesting class. And this is a, and then I’m a good salesman, I would say. Felipe (30m 31s): And salesman it’s about, it’s just about like showing something and saying, man, I know your need, and I, I have something that actually will solve this need, fulfill this need. And this is something that I realized teaching in classes. Like, I mean, management and business should not be boring. I mean, it’s, if you have a company, if you have business is one of the most thrilling things. So how cool, how students, management students, some of them say that this is boring! I mean, obviously the problem is with us, the professors, we have to move this from a boring class or a traditional lecture to something which is fully engaging, that they will be waiting to go to class. Felipe (31m 14s): Right. And not like saying, Oh, I got, classes… This is something that we can do, but we have to move to do this, a new mindset, a new set of set of tools, a new environment, where the students actually do do the work, take the decisions and we just help them to make better decisions. And this is, I mean, I guess it’s an important thing. And I like to just communicate and maybe teach how to do it, right. The how to use it because we have those tools. Rob (31m 46s): Absolutely. Absolutely. And Felipe, this is probably one of the last questions that we will get, but it’s sometimes that is one of the most difficult ones. And I would like to know from whatever perspective you want to bring this, I would like to know what is your favorite game? Felipe (31m 60s): Oh, my favorite game. I haven’t been able to find it anymore. It’s a game that I played when I was in this first year of undergrad. It’s called DT if you ever find it, please send it to me. DT was actually managerial, a managerial, I didn’t know. But it, it was in 1995, I guess. It was like a, a black screen as if he wasn’t because of a technical director. And do you do where the, then the technical director of a football team? Felipe (32m 34s): Right. So basically the game was about playing the different, I mean the different games of Premier League or Calcio or any of those important leagues or Spain. Right. And you were able to, you have to manage your, your football players. You, you can buy football players, you can sell football players. And then finally it was about taking decisions like management. And that was my, my, I spent hours. I remember in the lab in the university playing this game and they really was able to engage me. Felipe (33m 7s): And I didn’t realize that at the end was touching something that they really were deep in my mind, even in myself, which is eh, managing, management. It’s like, how can I make better decisions and see the outcome? Right. Well, that was the game, that I really loved more than a game of these Mario Bros or this sort of game that maybe everybody plays and much more interested in serious games in, in tactical games. Right? Felipe (33m 37s): And this DT which is a manager of a football a soccer team, was what, really one of the best games I ever played. Rob (33m 47s): Fantastic. Thank you very much. Felipe for, for joining us, you’re, I’m guessing that you are right now in Chile, as well as, as, as you we’ve been, when we talked in the past, is that correct? Felipe (33m 57s): Yes in Santiago de Chile, in curfew, still. Rob (33m 60s): Yes. Yes. So thank you very much for your time for investing this time with us, with The Engagers in this, in this podcast, sharing your, your experience, your wisdom in the game-based learning world. Actually, before we leave, I want to know where we were. The audience can find you, would you, social media, I don’t know a webpage of you, of your, of the company. Where can we find you? Felipe (34m 20s): Ah, it’s very easy, they have to go to gamelabeducation.com and then they will find all our simulators and the different products that we have. And nowadays we are very close to launch in a weeks time, and now for the final user. So now students will be able to play one of our games directly and learn from it. So gamelabeducation.com, this is our, our website. So please contact us there, or maybe LinkedIn as well. Felipe (34m 50s): Or if they look for us in, in, in us in gamelabeducation.com, they could find us there. Rob (34m 57s): Fantastic. Thank you very much again, Felipe, for, for all this time, you’ve, you’ve invested with us, however, at least for now and for today, it is time to say that its Game Over. Hey, engagers. It is fantastic to have you here, and I hope you enjoyed this interview with Felipe. And are you using Instagram? You know, I’m right now, getting back to posting stories. I, I stopped for a while. I’ll be explaining it there. Now I will be once again, posting stories almost every day and would love to connect with you there. Rob (35m 31s): And just like on Twitter, my username is RobAlvarezB and before you go onto your next mission, go ahead and subscribe using your favorite podcast app and listen to the next episode of Professor Game. See you there. End of transcription

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